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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WhatGravitas" data-source="post: 4194529" data-attributes="member: 33132">Bear in mind that my player self-nerfed it - he saw it and was uncomfortable with it on his own.Furthermore, it stacks up being *very* good compared to Divine Surge, Greater (which effectively does less damage if you don't burn Con) and other manoeuvres on the same level (4th):<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bonesplitting Strike: +2 Con damage (i.e. + HD in damage - usually)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Death from Above: Needs Jump check, gives movement, makes target flat-footed for this attack and +4d6 damage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Obscuring Shadow Veil: +5d6 damage and target treats everything as 50% miss chance on a failed save</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Searing Charge: Charge + 5d6 fire damage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ruby Nightmare Blade: Double damage on successful Concentration check.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">White Raven Strike: +4d6 damage and target is flat-footed until next turn</li> </ul>Considering that the crusader is already the most powerful class, due to his ability to produce vicious lose/lose-situations for enemies, I see +8d8 as very, very powerful. Note that the two most potent manoeuvres of the bunch there (obscuring shadow veil and ruby nightmare blade) are NOT available for the crusader. I mean, as a crusader, you don't want to dish out as much damage as possible, you're NOT the replacement for the barbarian - you are effectively a 15 ft. x 15 ft. area of impassibility and protection.I see +4d8 as "average" compared to the ones above and +5d8 or +6d8 as "stacking up well".Also: Both divine surge become more sane, if you switch the damage bonus, i.e. +6d8 for Divine Surge, +8d8 for Divine Surge, Greater.Cheers, LT.</blockquote>

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