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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Friend of the Dork" data-source="post: 5228698" data-attributes="member: 91954">Perception, pg 102 PFCR: Notice a visible creature Perception DC 0. Also, hear the sounds of battle, DC -10. Hear sound of creature walking DC 10. Why I think it is required? Because it is not an automatic success. Seeing people walking at a long distance can be difficult (but far from impossible), and requires a certain level of awareness and perception. I thought the PF rules supersedes the 3.5 rules? I found a max detection distance in forest: 180 feet. That would basically be a DC 18 spot check to see a single person walking though, or a DC 46 to hear a single man walking (penalties to listen in forest is -2 per 10 feet).  In gentle hills it's 200 feet, mountains 400', desert ca 700 feet, plains 1440. But this is max distance for some reason, and there are no rules here on DC cap for distance. So the only sane way to do this is to handwave the distance penalty on perception checks and just set a base DC (like 20) to see if one party is aware of the other or not, like in 3rd edition D&D. I would like to see a good way to keep the distance penalties and either change them so they scale on an increasing variable rather than a set number, or simply cap it at -10 or -20.</blockquote>