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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Friend of the Dork" data-source="post: 5229574" data-attributes="member: 91954">What I feel is appropriate. Hmm well if it was that easy I wouldn't need any rules at all. I'm not a militairy man, I don't really know exactly how hard it is to spot a group of soldiers at 100, 300, 1000, or 2000 meters. I only know that each is possible because of reported kills at those ranges. So you don't remember the rules for tracking in this game? I've basically just used them, removing that which didn't fit and adding the part about low-light vision (which only makes sense also in tracking). And as I said terrain ranges in PF will be used, thus it is already accounted for hills, trees, bush etc.. instead of increasing DCs you just lower the spotting range. Dark clothing might or might not help. I'd probably allow an equipment bonus on stealth checks with appropriate garments for the appropriate terrain. Maybe +1 or +2 (or in this case increasing the DC). Incremental penalty is listed under guidelines, as you pointed out yourself. And I would say the same to you that you say to me.  That's pretty much my whole point from first post. And i desire to fill that hole. Outside ninja drop bears... An enemy sniper is a far more likely scenario in this game. When can he detect the party, and can the party detect him before he starts firing? In fact even when fired he will be impossible to see if he's at a certain range... say 400'... not a ridiculous range using a longbow. So yeah the penalty is simply escalating too fast. -1 beyond 10' is by itself a bit harsh... how difficult is it to see someone at that distance? Even if hiding...  Now if the penalty increased by doubling the base number the DCs would make a bit more sense. 20 -1, 40 -2, 80 -3, 160 -4 etc. I'm not saying these numbers are good, just that the scaling is better than just every 10'. Change the bear with an Ogre then.. which can indeed use a longbow. At say 300' feet the PCs gets a -30 penalty to their spot checks to see the Ogre's who also gets 1d20+dex modiifier... DC 20 is a difficult test. DC 41 is closing on impossible. And yes it's quite possible to spot someone 300' away in hills, and the distance DOES make it harder. Hmm I think large creatures gets a -4 penalty on hide checks as it is... not that it helps much in this case. Adjust the DC by lowering DC 1500+ (approx. distance to horizon 15,000 feet) to somewhere close to 20-30... hmmm that's quite a change in my book. Problem with common sense is that it's... not. How many people know how far the horizon is when viewing from ca 6'? Now I don't need anything that excact for a game, but some guidelines that were close to reality would be nice. A max spotting range, a minimum spotting range etc. Ugh this is my last multiquote post in this thread!</blockquote>

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