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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IronWolf" data-source="post: 5229625" data-attributes="member: 21076">I don't think one needs to be a military man to make a reasonable assumption about how difficult it is to possibly notice someone depending on terrain type.  Determine the environment, how are you describing it to the players?  Are they in grasslands, flatlands, hills, mountains or what?  This seems to be everyday experience to base that on.Off the top of my head?  No - I would have to reference the SRD for the specifics of tracking rules.  The ranges are accounted for, but what about modifiers for density of forest and such in regards to the Perception check?  How hilly is hilly?  Even with ranges as stated in the SRD you would still need to choose a DC for the PC to roll against, right?Clothing can certainly have an impact in my opinion.  I can more easily spot the hunters in orange walking a fence row from a much greater distance than the local neighbor kid in his brown Carharts walking the fence row back to the woods.Your idea of +1 or +2 to increase the DC if you feel the clothing helps seems about right to me.In this scenario, I would say the "sniper" has a significant advantage.  One, he is quite likely looking for the party or at least being more observant as his post is to watch the road/path in.  At 400' if he is hiding and made some preparation to hide I would expect him to be extremely difficult to spot.If the party isn't paying attention when they come into the area, they'd likely never see a sniper laying in wait. If they are watching?  It's the Perception vs. Stealth check and I'd likely *still* think the sniper would have significant advantage.  He's got distance, he's got advantage of being able to dress for the terrain, or possible partial cover, etc.  In these situations, without doing careful calculation and such - off the cuff I wouldn't consider a DC40 or so unreasonable for a sniper laying in wait against a party.This scaling doesn't seem bad for outdoor encounters.Again - if common sense overrides the +1/per 10' guideline then use the common sense.  Keep in mind the modifiers in the table for Perception are guidelines.  If the GM, who can fully consider the situation doesn't think the terrain warrants the +1/per 10' penalty then defer to the rational thought.  And this deferring to rational though in given situations may very well mean deferring to the scaling you mentioned above.It's the open sea.  This is a case where the guideline of +1/per 10' is trumped by common sense.  I don't need to know the exact distance to the horizon (I've already admitted to likely needing to look up tracking rules... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  )  I can know that on the open sea, there is a good chance I am going to be able to see a ship at full sail off in the distance.  DC25 to DC35 depending on conditions (daytime, nighttime, etc.  much harder if there is a fog).We have a max spotting range listed in the wilderness sections, it seems you are most displeased with the subjectiveness of the DC to actually spot something.  As for minimum, when you bump into them - that's the min.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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