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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tom" data-source="post: 1322900" data-attributes="member: 14853">Let's take a look at what events would have to take place in order for the events described to happen:1)  The chief nilbog would have to guess the new tactics of the party to include a flying (with wings), invisible, fireball using wizard.  He would then have to have the resourses to counter the abilities/tactics (see invisible, fly, the net of "Wizard Screwage", etc.). 2)  The goblins would need to spot a bird (druid) at a distance (I'll assume several hundred feet because the bird surely spotted a large group of goblins from the air at several hundred feet unless conditions sucked BADLY) ; and then the goblins would have to know that the particular bird was not normal and therefore raise suspicion.3)  I'll assume the goblin party started quite a distance away from the PCs and the PCs took appropriate steps to prevent from being spotted themselves.  Now let's assume the goblins spot the PCs at a closer distance (let's guess, say 120 feet, I don't know the spotting conditions) and therefore surprise is not a factor.  So for the Nilbog to be at the same level as the Wizard who is 120 feet away and 90 feet up on round one is a pretty good stretch.  It should take at least three rounds to cover the distance with a fly spell (1/2 speed when ascending, 2 rounds to get to 90 ft altitude + 1 round to cover the rest of the forward distance).  But let's assume the Nilbog took the see invisible potion due to spotting a weird bird; and then a few rounds later spotted a flying Wizard; and then spelled up with fly.4)  I don't know how the net of "Wizard Screwage" works, but it would seem like he would have to make a to-hit roll with it or you would get a saving throw or something.  So I'll assume the nilbog is proficient at throwing nets while flying; or proficient with Use Magical Device (net of Wizard Screwage).So with all this, I believe I can safely say you got metagamed.  Metagaming is not a problem usually, unless it doesn't make sense (like in this case) and the players loose the "sense of realness" of the game (no I'm not some psyco who runs around sewers killing rats with a short sword {well not often anyway,  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> }).  So what to do now.If the DM is having trouble challenging your party, he needs to analyse his tactics first and his monster's abilities second.  He should only metagame tactics if he can reason a plausible way it could have occurred without the need for metagaming.  He should only metagame the monster abilities if he can plausibly reason how the increase occurred without metagaming.  For example, we were playing the Hill Giant Module and were killing them easily.  So for the Frost Giant Module, the DM beefed up the Fr Giants (added some extra Nat Armor, and a few fighter levels/feats/HPs) and he explained it in our first encounter with them by saying "These frost giants look extra tough (probably because this is their main stronghold in Greyhawk) with extra thick looking skin, and impressive looking battle scars".That's what the DM needs to try to do.  The DM can be wrong, just try not to argue during the game too much and talk outside the game.</blockquote>

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