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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6052202" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The point isn't that class <em>can't</em> have different mechanics. Absolutely they can. But my point is that it shouldn't be WOTC'S absolute decision which classes use which mechanics. Because whatever they end up choosing will only be embraced by a small percentage of the D&D populace, and the others will bitch about it, and probably outright refuse to play.</p><p></p><p>That's why they're talking about doing modules in the first place. So that they can put out several types of mechanics to use, and then let individual DMs CHOOSE which mechanics they like and don't like, and can use them for their classes as THEY SEE FIT.</p><p></p><p>Do you honestly believe the game will be embraced by the general D&D populace if WotC makes the decision that Wizards are Vancian and that's it? All because of the supposed idea that without "concrete" mechanics for a class, that the class has no identity? And what if by that same argument WotC makes the decision that ALL martial classes use Expertise Dice? Do you think that'll go over? </p><p></p><p>As I've mentioned to everyone who's brought it up before... those people who say you can't have several different mechanics to choose from for any particular class (left up to the DM to select when he's putting his campaign together)... would only want "one mechanic to rule them all" just so long as <em>they actually like the mechanic their class got assigned</em>. Cause if WotC ended up giving them a mechanic they didn't like with no easy way to not use it and use something else instead... they'll just end up playing whatever other version of the game that gave them what they wanted in the first place.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What if Paladin class fluff doesn't have Paladin's worshipping deities? What if they are knightly champions of a cause? What if they have a specific Order, a la the Templars or Knight Hospitalers? What if being a Paladin was by definition different than being a Fighter/Cleric by how the class's Story was designed? THAT'S how you differentiate a Paladin from a Fighter/Cleric. How you differentiate a Sorcerer from a Wizard. How you differentiate a Bard from a Rogue/Wizard? Or Ranger from Fighter with a Nature background?</p><p></p><p>If ALL you used for differentiation was mechanics... you might as well just make two classes. One that uses weapons, the other that uses spells. After all... a Cleric is just a spellcaster with a very specific list of spells to use. The whole "get our spells from the god we worship" is entirely Class Story and has no actual mechanics to back it up. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Using class names in the game or out of the game is not the point. Any DM can call these classes whatever they want within their own game. But the whole point is that just using game mechanics as a way to distinguish classes <em>is no way to inspire more people to play or come back to D&D</em>. Because if those mechanics don't WORK for someone... they just won't play the game. So if we all embrace the idea that a Fighter is a Fighter because of what being a fighter represents within the Story of the game... then we can have several modules of different mechanics (some simple, some complex, some just with damage, some with bizarre fencing maneuvers) that any particular DM and/or player can USE to represent what his Fighter can do.</p><p></p><p>I submit the belief that WotC is much more likely to get a predominant agreement from the D&D populace on what the Story of what a specific class is... then they are on what kinds of mechanics should be used to represent it. And thus... let's use THAT as the way to distinguish one class from another, and not get so fixated on choosing one mechanic (and only one mechanic) to use for it. Because that is going to cause much more angina than asking DMs to select from several modules of different mechanics to use.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6052202, member: 7006"] The point isn't that class [I]can't[/I] have different mechanics. Absolutely they can. But my point is that it shouldn't be WOTC'S absolute decision which classes use which mechanics. Because whatever they end up choosing will only be embraced by a small percentage of the D&D populace, and the others will bitch about it, and probably outright refuse to play. That's why they're talking about doing modules in the first place. So that they can put out several types of mechanics to use, and then let individual DMs CHOOSE which mechanics they like and don't like, and can use them for their classes as THEY SEE FIT. Do you honestly believe the game will be embraced by the general D&D populace if WotC makes the decision that Wizards are Vancian and that's it? All because of the supposed idea that without "concrete" mechanics for a class, that the class has no identity? And what if by that same argument WotC makes the decision that ALL martial classes use Expertise Dice? Do you think that'll go over? As I've mentioned to everyone who's brought it up before... those people who say you can't have several different mechanics to choose from for any particular class (left up to the DM to select when he's putting his campaign together)... would only want "one mechanic to rule them all" just so long as [I]they actually like the mechanic their class got assigned[/I]. Cause if WotC ended up giving them a mechanic they didn't like with no easy way to not use it and use something else instead... they'll just end up playing whatever other version of the game that gave them what they wanted in the first place. What if Paladin class fluff doesn't have Paladin's worshipping deities? What if they are knightly champions of a cause? What if they have a specific Order, a la the Templars or Knight Hospitalers? What if being a Paladin was by definition different than being a Fighter/Cleric by how the class's Story was designed? THAT'S how you differentiate a Paladin from a Fighter/Cleric. How you differentiate a Sorcerer from a Wizard. How you differentiate a Bard from a Rogue/Wizard? Or Ranger from Fighter with a Nature background? If ALL you used for differentiation was mechanics... you might as well just make two classes. One that uses weapons, the other that uses spells. After all... a Cleric is just a spellcaster with a very specific list of spells to use. The whole "get our spells from the god we worship" is entirely Class Story and has no actual mechanics to back it up. Using class names in the game or out of the game is not the point. Any DM can call these classes whatever they want within their own game. But the whole point is that just using game mechanics as a way to distinguish classes [I]is no way to inspire more people to play or come back to D&D[/I]. Because if those mechanics don't WORK for someone... they just won't play the game. So if we all embrace the idea that a Fighter is a Fighter because of what being a fighter represents within the Story of the game... then we can have several modules of different mechanics (some simple, some complex, some just with damage, some with bizarre fencing maneuvers) that any particular DM and/or player can USE to represent what his Fighter can do. I submit the belief that WotC is much more likely to get a predominant agreement from the D&D populace on what the Story of what a specific class is... then they are on what kinds of mechanics should be used to represent it. And thus... let's use THAT as the way to distinguish one class from another, and not get so fixated on choosing one mechanic (and only one mechanic) to use for it. Because that is going to cause much more angina than asking DMs to select from several modules of different mechanics to use. [/QUOTE]
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