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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SageMinerve" data-source="post: 6054977" data-attributes="member: 69067">It is not the only argument. You forgot the ass argument, and it's central:All other things considered equal, and if no one is ACTING LIKE AN ASS, the DM should have more leverage in the campaign's choices.DM making every decisions because they want to enjoy a power trip is in flagrant contradiction to the ass argument. When someone in my group DMs, other players agree to play along with what he decides because they respect him, are confident that the DM is not in it just to make people jump through hoops, and because they're more into acting then world-building (see below).So you see, your way (and I'm not saying your way is a bad way) is not the only choice for mature players.Hey, what do you know? Funnily enough, I too DM because I enjoy the creative process.In your example (the one about the casting mechanic), your player isn't excited about a character, he's excited about a game mechanic. If someone told me that the only reason he won't play is because he can't use THIS or THAT game mechanic, well frankly I don't know how much we'd really enjoy playing with him.You as a player should be excited to play a wizard that's a member of the Order of Shazam <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> , not about the fact that you're casting a certain way.IMHO, of course. And again, I realize that not everyone has the same experience, and that's fine.Look, we could go into a pissing contest about who has the best players, but it's rather immature (and this coming from a guy who's written "ass" and "pissing" in a post <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />). I just don't think that a campaign where players co-create the sandbox is the only way of playing for mature players and all other ways are for immature brats.In my personal experience, I play with a group of players who enjoy the Acting side of RPGs. They're perfectly OK with the DM acting as more of a Director/Writer and they interpret characters in the world. They can't be bothered with the mechanics (well, not that much anyway) and they just want hem to stay the hell out of the way.I challenge anyone to tell me that they're "passive" players just because they don't directly participate in the world-building process.***As an aside, and because I might give a different impression because we don't agree on this issue, I just want to say Hussar that I really respect you as a poster and I thoroughly enjoy all your post, and I find myself agreeing with you most of the time.But not every time, I guess <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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