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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6059277" data-attributes="member: 95493">I would only point out that not needing to study to learn magic =/= Loners. Also, that it was your comment about how they should be as opposed to anything else that I actually disagreed with. You seem against anyone describing how classes should be but then you did it with the sorcerers = loners comment. In either case I can let it go, I just felt like pointing it out.You had me at the beginning but lost me towards the end with "This game is teh suxxors" comment.I definitely agree with the problems in refluffing (as you put it) classes to make them into something different. I'd hate to be in a 3e game where I'm told that I have to play a sorcerer class, but call it a wizard, instead of playing a wizard class. Or in a 4e game where I have to play a ranger, call it a fighter, in order to play an archer.I don't think that automatically leads to "defaults are bad". I think defaults can be bad, but I don't think they have to be. In fact I think it is probable that they will have a default mode, for all the classes, with options to switch it out. I'd be okay (assuming I liked psionic power points) of using the Psion's mechanics for the wizard. I'd hate to have to play the Psion and call it a wizard. Those are very different things.But what I think will happen, for example, is say that all classes use a vaguely 3e design. Let's say for argument sake that the wizard will use slots (and memorization, etc.) and all the normal fluff that goes with them (as per 3e) by default. Let's also say that sorcerers and bards will be how they were in 3e. Now, from there, we have a template where wizards have memorize and forget mechanics based on spell slots, and sorcerers having roughly the same power level but instead relying on spontaneousness. Bards, similarly, will be spontaneous but they'll have fewer spell levels than a sorcerer. Changing to power points, AEDU or any other method (3e warlock's invocations maybe?) shouldn't affect these power levels, nor the choices available. It changes only how they cast the spells. I don't see this as bad or even hard to directly identify.If anything it will be much easier, and more acceptable than 4e, if WotC puts specific instructions on HOW and WHERE to rules on changing spell-slots for other systems. They just have to be very direct and upfront about it, in order to nip this problem in the bud. I think it helps if they go with a default system for all classes, be that vaguely 3e, 4e or even AD+D for all I care. So that people don't feel like one class is getting preferred treatment.What I'm saying I guess, and what I have been, is that there is so much more that defines a class than just how they cast spells or how they fight. Monks, Paladins, and Barbarians all ostensibly used the same structure to fight in 3e, but they weren't the same. That is why I'm more worried about how WotC differentiates the classes, than what the mechanics are.Once they get the power levels, abilities and other aspects of the classes right they can worry about fixing how people cast spells and how they give us the tools to change or pick the system that we want right out of the box.I agree with this too. That is why we have to be clear that there are other versions for mechanics and how to easily swap them in or out. They can't be tacked on and they can't be relegated to other books or random obscure chapters. They have to be right up front. Back in the day people played because they were a little obsessed. Most who play now look for a game they can easily run. They need to make sure to cater to both. Some are willing to put in a bunch of time to convert or fix things but most of us aren't.Same here. They have to be careful on how they do it, as per the fighters without bows problem in 4e. But it isn't insurmountable or even difficult, just tricky.It's a dial that needs to be big and red and flashing and waiting for them the first time they crack open the chapter that holds the wizard, sorcerer and warlock.I'd say its more important than how much power each of the classes have. Magic can always be cranked up, and with effort powered down too. It is probably the number 2 issue in my mind, right after getting HP right - or close enough that I can easily change it to have it my way, and you yours.</blockquote>

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