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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 90727" data-attributes="member: 530">Ah, Vancouver is a great town.  Darn those groundhogs.  We can grumble and shake our fists at them together.  Grrr....I think that the system should not rely on any drastic custom rules like altering the XP progression.  It makes the system less useful to larger numbers of people.  This is my complaint with all of the classless d20 systems out there - they overhaul other parts of the game, making them useless to me.In my opinion it's critical that, unless you just intend to use this as house rules for your own campaign, this project be 100% compatible and balanced without any further modification to the current game rules.People might want to use this because they want a different flavor to magic - the concept of a mage who studies occult traditions and uncovers ancient secrets.  That is all we know about these games and should be the only thing we assume.  We should not assume that they want a low level game.  We should not assume that they want a grim-n-gritty feel.  We should not assume that they want a different hit point system.  We shouldn't even assume that they want a low magic game, although this system does provide the flexibility to handle this well.  I think that keeping these influences out of this system allows people to pick and choose different components to make a set of rules that suits their individual needs.  Does that make sense?However, this really breaks game balance.  This is part of why I was saying earlier that the prestige class mechanic runs into problems when spell levels are involved.Just to toss another possibility into the blender, how about something like this:1.  Give the scholar class a spell progression but no spells.  They can't use these spells until they take on a prestige class, since they can't learn any spells.  Nonetheless, the spell progression is there.2.  Have all prestige classes use the +1 to existing class method of spell advancement.3.  Have all prestige classes give access to lists of spells.  Each individual class can determine whether the caster must find/scribe spells or whether they are divinely granted and thus all accessible.4.  Each class might have special restrictions on casting spells:  Arcane spell failure in armor, subdual damage, the possibility of attracting unwanted outsider attention, etc.  This is specific to each tradition but not required.  A tradition can have no limitations if desired.5.  Have all prestige classes share the character's spell progression, but limit access to higher level spells via exclusive occult lore skills for each prestige class.  Since they are exclusive skills they are tied directly to levels in that particular class.This way we have one spells per day progression.  Incidentally this allows people to more easily replace it with other mechanics if they choose, like a psionics based mana system or wizard vs. cleric vs. sorcerer.  At the same time, access to learning higher level spells is still limited to prestige class levels.Finally, we can retain the one spell level per class level mechanic under this system.  A 12th level character (scholar3/necromancer9) can know 9th level spells via the prestige class, but she does not yet have sufficient spell progression to actually cast them yet since a 12th level caster can only cast 6th level spells.  These extra necromancer levels are a waste, so this encourages her to do one of two things instead:  Take on another tradition and diversify (i.e. scholar3/necromancer6/oracle3) or if she wants to focus entirely on necromancy continue to take scholar levels and devote the extra skill points toward important areas of knowledge that compliment necromancy (i.e. scholar6/necromancer6).  This second option reinforces the notion of magi as very learned people.Perhaps higher levels of scholar can also give bonuses or synergy bonuses related to spell casting to give an incentive to people who choose to specialize.  I like the idea of bonus feats that may be chosen from either skill focus (for non-magi scholars) or meta-magic feats every 2 or 3 levels.Conversely, another caster might be able to cast 6th level spells in theory because she has a total combined 11 levels in mage classes, but in practice she only knows up to 3rd level spells (and only in the conjurer tradition at that) because she's a scholar3/conjurer3/fatespinner2/necromancer1/theurgist2.To clarify - this last, very unfocused, character has the following spell slots (using wizard as base):  4-4-4-4-3-2-1She may choose from spells in her book of the following spell levels to memorize into these slots:Conjurer spells:  Levels 0-3Fatespinner spells:  Levels 0-2Necromancer spells:  Levels 0-1Theurgist spells:  Levels 0-2As per standard rules, she may fill up her "unusable" higher spell level slots with lower level spells of her choosing.How does that grab you?  I think it expands flexibility and preserves game balance at the same time.  It seems like this would work very well mechanically.I like the idea of spells not being limited to spell slots but I would like to make ideas like this variant rules, as the more of the existing system we can use, the more useful the system is to the widest number of people.  We can provide cool variant rules like this in the netbook and accomodate for their extra needs with additional headings for them in each spell description (i.e. if you are using the unlimited casting variant add this material component:  The fresh blood of a calf born under a new moon no less than 3 months ago and increase the casting time to 2 hours), but I think that by default the system should use the wizard rules.  I don't even like the wizard rules but I still think that's the most solid way to handle it</blockquote>

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