Too powerful? What am I missing... (please help)

[Kaledor]

I feel like I must be missing something in the rules.

Here's the background:
I don't know psionics.
I DM for a group of fairly experienced players.
Two of them like psionics.


When I had seen them used in play once before I figured they were mostly personal augmentation spells with very limited offensive ability (because this is how I had seen them played in other games before). So, when one of my players really wanted to add psionics into the game, I trusted his decision and okayed it (I know now I should've said no, but like I said, I trusted the player...). Figuring it be like having a sorcerer in the party.

Now I've seen it. uggg


A 3rd level wilder launched a 5d6 energy ray as a ranged touch spell with no save and there's no damage cap.

This character now far outstrips the other casters in the group.
What am I missing?



Not to start a rant here, but are psionics really that over-powered?
Should they just NOT be paired with arcane and divine spellcasters?
Are there ways to tone them down to make them more reasonable?
Are there things in the Rulebooks that I can use to bring the power level down?
Are there things about the Wilder that I am missing (errata maybe?)...
-But if a wilder can surge virtually every round, with only a small percentage chance of being dazed next round... there doesn't seem to be any down side and he effectively becomes a 5th level caster in a party of 3rd level characters fighting 3rd level encounters... Agh! I feel like this completely openned a can of worms that I like to slam shut --- but I don't want to just say "tough luck" to my player.


(perhaps making arcane spell failure apply to psionics...)
(perhaps other limiting factors...)




**Also is wild surge rolled for BEFORE The completion of the spell or after?

A wilder can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever she manifests a power.

So does this "manifesting" mean when the power BEGINS or when the power EFFECTS come into being. My understanding is that it would be when the EFFECTS come into play (in the same way a summoner need not make all the choices of his summoned spell until after the spell is finished casting...), but if it were when the power BEGINS to be "cast" it would at least be a balancing factor for the wilder...

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

I see it as "strong" - but far from broken.

A 3rd level rogue with twf can be rolling 2d4+4d6 dmg if he hits on a sneak attack with 2 thrown daggers. There ain't no cap on sneak dice either baby

The barbarian/cleric w Str domain enlarge person (2nd level) is dealing 3d6+1.5str

Edit: Wild surge checks on beginning.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Get XPH and Complete Psionics.

Read them. Know them. Love them.

Basically, the wilder has one or two powers. That's it. At 20th level, they have 13, IIRC. Yes, he can do his wild surge, but the downside is nigh-crippling when it happens.

Brad

 

[pawsplay]

Surging is decided before the power, the negative effects occur after. It's not a huge deal... surging isn't "free." Randomly losing a turn in the middle of a battle can be a huge problem. And it costs power points.

Further, getting those 5 dice means firing off a lot of ammo in the first place. Goes the full effect twice, they are nearly out of pp... if they do it once and suffer from psychic enervation, over half their base pp are gone.

Psionic blasters can generate Big Numbers, but I don't find them overpowering at all.

 

[Doug McCrae]

A 3rd level wilder launched a 5d6 energy ray as a ranged touch spell with no save and there's no damage cap.

At the same level a wizard's scorching ray would do 4d6 as a ranged touch no save so it doesn't seem that amazing.

 

[Legildur]

I'm no expert, but from comments I've seen written over and over again about psionics based balsters, they can really dish out a lot of damage for one, or maybe two, encounters. But then their PPs are burnt up. Sorcerors and Warlocks just go all day.

So, if you game has only a small number of encounters per day, then psionics-based characters should dominate. But if you have multiple encounters, then they have to be sparing with their PPs.

 

[Nail]

Not to start a rant here, but are psionics really that over-powered?

Yes.

That said, this is an old debate on these (and other) boards.

Part of your problem: Your players are much more experienced with psionics than you are. Because of this, they will be able to wipe the floor with your bad guys. (And just wait until you get to higher levels......you ain't seen nothing yet, kid.)

 

[Slaved]

5d6 with a 10% chance of doing nothing the next round is pretty rough on both sides.

I would rather be using color spray though. True it gives a save while energy ray does not, but energy ray has to hit and only effects a single target.

Chance of taking out all enemies in a 15' cone or taking out one enemy and possibly yourself.

At this point a flanking rogue is doing 3d6+ with each hit and can do it all day long while the wilder is stuck at about 4 uses. Which is better depends on the game though.

 

[Nail]

Which is better depends on the game though.

True enough.

Kaledor, your BEST bet is to start hitting your PCs with many small encounters. The Psions will go Nova for the first few, then run out...while the spell-casters will still have resources to tap. When I DMed for a group with a (overpowered!) psion, that's what I ended up doing. After several sessions, the psion learned there was a price to pay for dumping all of your resources at once.

 

[Slaved]

True

Well of course.

The Psions will go Nova for the first few, then run out

Nova? If a wizard 3 uses his 2nd level and 1st level attack spells in a fight is he going nova? I thought a nova was using up your resources at a disproportional rate, typically all or most of them over a round or two.

But does that really apply to low levels? The wilder has 11 power points plus his bonus from charisma. A wizard has one second, two first, and four zero levels plus bonus from intelligence. With a 14 in each the wilder has 13 power points while the wizard has two second, three first, and four zero.

There just are not that many resources there for either of them. Every manifestation or casting is a significant portion of their allotment for the day.

while the spell-casters will still have resources to tap.

That is also an important point. If the wilder here used his energy ray to do 5d6 points of damage he is done before the wizard is, although not by a lot right now. Later on the difference will be even more noticeable. Psionics are more about power management and planning on future availability while the wizard is more about planning out his greater allotment of versitility and power.

After several sessions, the psion learned there was a price to pay for dumping all of your resources at once.

And here we see game balance!