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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5962265" data-attributes="member: 996">Yep, the anti-4e crowd did not limit their campaign to the internet.&nbsp; The first local convention I went to after 4e came out, I played in a number of 4e games, since I was enjoying it, and that first year, /every one of them/ had at least one guy who was just there to rag on the new ed.&nbsp; It was like they were working from a script.&nbsp; &quot;I thought I'd try 4e.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Wow this really lacks any kind of choices.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Wow this feels like a board game.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;I'm surprised how little this resembles D&amp;D.&quot;&nbsp; Etc.&nbsp; What really clinched it was when /the same guy/ I'd seen do that early in the weekend sat down and did it again : said he was trying 4e for the first time, and again acted 'surprised' at how bad it was.&nbsp; Amazing.&nbsp; You get it at stores, at tables playing other games, wherever the topic seems remotely germane, they'll snipe with a &quot;4e, that was a nice tactical boardgame&quot; or &quot;I already play WoW, I don't need 4e&quot; or some other spurious bit of snark that you /know/ is false and could only be motivated by active malice.And it hasn't gone away.&nbsp; The last con I went to wasn't even a gaming convention, it was steampunk but there were some games.&nbsp; One was &quot;Girl Genius&quot; using 'd20.'&nbsp; It was so successful there was an 'encore performance' of it - Girl Genius is popular with the steampunk crowd, doubly so where it crosses over with gamers.&nbsp; Three or four of the folks having fun at those games took the opportunity to state their preference for 3.5 and drop the standard-issue unfounded criticisms of 4e.&nbsp; The ironic bit: the 'Girl Genius d20' they were having a blast with was little more than a heavily-re-skinned 4e, with all the races/classes, skill/power names and keywords/conditions victorianized.&nbsp; Ultimately, I think the edition wars are mostly about perceived 'betrayal' vs brand-loyalty, nostalgia vs enthusiasm for the new, and other mostly emotional/irrational reasons.&nbsp; The real differences between 3.5 and 4e aren't that extreme (they're both 'd20' at bottom), and neither are the legitimate reasons to prefer one over the other.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5962265, member: 996"] Yep, the anti-4e crowd did not limit their campaign to the internet. The first local convention I went to after 4e came out, I played in a number of 4e games, since I was enjoying it, and that first year, /every one of them/ had at least one guy who was just there to rag on the new ed. It was like they were working from a script. "I thought I'd try 4e." "Wow this really lacks any kind of choices." "Wow this feels like a board game." "I'm surprised how little this resembles D&D." Etc. What really clinched it was when /the same guy/ I'd seen do that early in the weekend sat down and did it again : said he was trying 4e for the first time, and again acted 'surprised' at how bad it was. Amazing. You get it at stores, at tables playing other games, wherever the topic seems remotely germane, they'll snipe with a "4e, that was a nice tactical boardgame" or "I already play WoW, I don't need 4e" or some other spurious bit of snark that you /know/ is false and could only be motivated by active malice. And it hasn't gone away. The last con I went to wasn't even a gaming convention, it was steampunk but there were some games. One was "Girl Genius" using 'd20.' It was so successful there was an 'encore performance' of it - Girl Genius is popular with the steampunk crowd, doubly so where it crosses over with gamers. Three or four of the folks having fun at those games took the opportunity to state their preference for 3.5 and drop the standard-issue unfounded criticisms of 4e. The ironic bit: the 'Girl Genius d20' they were having a blast with was little more than a heavily-re-skinned 4e, with all the races/classes, skill/power names and keywords/conditions victorianized. Ultimately, I think the edition wars are mostly about perceived 'betrayal' vs brand-loyalty, nostalgia vs enthusiasm for the new, and other mostly emotional/irrational reasons. The real differences between 3.5 and 4e aren't that extreme (they're both 'd20' at bottom), and neither are the legitimate reasons to prefer one over the other. [/QUOTE]

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