Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
tool proficiencies: what's the point?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6199959" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>I think the math in 1e was very ground breaking. It gave the feel and flavor of the game. Missing attacks with a certain uncanny frequency at low level failing saves at low level and continually making them at high level. These created the tone of the game. 5e is not that game though, nor should it be, those rules were not cohesive and not elegant. It was the only fantasy game on the market with mass appeal and players though. With so many rpgs on the market now though and so many advances in rpg design, knowing what the feel is you are looking to model and crafting the rules to model that feel is exactly what I want and should be done while still touching its prolific source material.</p><p></p><p>My point is we have already seen 4+ versions of the game we know the look and feel part already it is not that hard. There is so much stuff out there you could fill an entire large bookshelf with stuff. It really is the core of the game that matters. How extensible the game is in the end and how much longevity it will have will depend on the core of the game and not the bells and whistles.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It may be true that many are not concerned with the math portion... Because they think the expert designers have them well in hand. This is an expertise that I am not sure will happen. Thus far, we have seen many different math versions of the game and only supposedly settled on the last one in the very last packet. It is a concern, because I feel pretty confident it will change again.</p><p></p><p>Vampire the newer version was pretty transparent I thought when I played (only a few times) however the previous version not so much (also only played a few times). As to the PF math, 3e had a lot of math issues too, some of them self created and not inherited. With 3e though, it is so well played and loved that we turn a blind eye to many of the outrageous stuff, or we continually rail against the issues. Regardless the appreciation we have for the system allows us to look past the oddities or the wtf moments. I don't think 5e will initially have this type of universal regard from the fan base. Which behooves them to get it right. They will have to do this behind closed doors without fan insight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think this is a strong argument. Math does not change based on the table. Some of the assumptions on the math might change, what you are referencing as a math concern does not even register for me as one. Guidelines for how many encounters a day and how many encounters per character level were always tenuous at best. My concerns are far more basal than that. Chance to hit, damage, hp, objects (hp and damage), skills, tools, saves, stat interpretation, bonuses, spells and magic items that affect the core math, synergy of disparate systems etc. Honing math very important...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6199959, member: 14506"] I think the math in 1e was very ground breaking. It gave the feel and flavor of the game. Missing attacks with a certain uncanny frequency at low level failing saves at low level and continually making them at high level. These created the tone of the game. 5e is not that game though, nor should it be, those rules were not cohesive and not elegant. It was the only fantasy game on the market with mass appeal and players though. With so many rpgs on the market now though and so many advances in rpg design, knowing what the feel is you are looking to model and crafting the rules to model that feel is exactly what I want and should be done while still touching its prolific source material. My point is we have already seen 4+ versions of the game we know the look and feel part already it is not that hard. There is so much stuff out there you could fill an entire large bookshelf with stuff. It really is the core of the game that matters. How extensible the game is in the end and how much longevity it will have will depend on the core of the game and not the bells and whistles. It may be true that many are not concerned with the math portion... Because they think the expert designers have them well in hand. This is an expertise that I am not sure will happen. Thus far, we have seen many different math versions of the game and only supposedly settled on the last one in the very last packet. It is a concern, because I feel pretty confident it will change again. Vampire the newer version was pretty transparent I thought when I played (only a few times) however the previous version not so much (also only played a few times). As to the PF math, 3e had a lot of math issues too, some of them self created and not inherited. With 3e though, it is so well played and loved that we turn a blind eye to many of the outrageous stuff, or we continually rail against the issues. Regardless the appreciation we have for the system allows us to look past the oddities or the wtf moments. I don't think 5e will initially have this type of universal regard from the fan base. Which behooves them to get it right. They will have to do this behind closed doors without fan insight. I don't think this is a strong argument. Math does not change based on the table. Some of the assumptions on the math might change, what you are referencing as a math concern does not even register for me as one. Guidelines for how many encounters a day and how many encounters per character level were always tenuous at best. My concerns are far more basal than that. Chance to hit, damage, hp, objects (hp and damage), skills, tools, saves, stat interpretation, bonuses, spells and magic items that affect the core math, synergy of disparate systems etc. Honing math very important... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
tool proficiencies: what's the point?
Top