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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Azzy" data-source="post: 6852759" data-attributes="member: 6563">Personally, I dislike tools being split from skills in 5e. It just seems entirely unnecessary.That aside, I'm not really seeing the big deal here. There are times that natural aptitude can out-perform training. And, really, this is a "problem" that tends to affect low-level characters rather than across the board. Let's use an extreme example: A 1st-level character ("Bobby") that has no proficiency in a certain tool, but has a 20 in the attribute most likely linked to using said tool. He has a +5 to rolls using that tool (unless the particular use of the tool requires a different attribute—which is entirely possible). A second 1st-level character ("Bobbi") is proficient with the tool, but has 10 in the same attribute that is most likely linked to using the tool. She has a +2 bonus to rolls using said tool. Bobby's natural aptitude outshines Bobbi's training with the tool by all of 15%. This probably irks Bobbi quite a bit. However, she knows that Bobby's natural aptitude will only take him so far—unless Bobby takes the Skilled feat or multiclasses (which may or may not be a viable option in the campaign they're in), he'll never be proficient in the tool. Conversely, as Bobbi goes up in levels, her proficiency bonus automatically goes up. additionally, she also has the opportunity to increase her relevant attribute beyond 10 (whereas Bobby is maxed-out).Now, for another extreme example, like a barbarian from a culture that has no locks trying to pick a lock when he's never seen one before... No roll necessary—he's not even passingly familiar with what a lock is, so why would you even let the character roll? There are times when it's appropriate for a DM to say, "you're character wouldn't even know where to begin". Now, as this barbarian spends more time around locks and becomes familiar with them, he'll eventually get to roll—maybe with disadvantage at first, and then normally as his familiarity grows.... Assuming he doesn't use the barbarian's innate lock picking ability: "brute force".</blockquote>

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