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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8818029" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I agree with you on the Toll supplementary rules in Loremaster's Manual.  They could have done more work in explaining the mathematical relationship between Toll : Obstacle.So I've run 8 x TB1 games and 2 TB2 games.  The two TB2 games I've run I've treated just like TB1 when it comes to Journey which is basically the LMM's guidance for Journeys except remove Toll.  It makes it pretty easy to determine the relative difficulty added to an entire Adventure phase in my opinion:* Journeys are one of five things:Elided - At low-level and close proximity to Town, you just start at the entrance to the Adventure (which is typically, though not always, a delve).Connected by Road - As above, its typically just "you're there at the entrance (because the road is safe and, in CRPG parlance, "fast travel")" unless the road itself is a problem area to navigate.  Then you make a test in Adventure phase.1 x Wilderness Obstacle/Problem Area - Short or Long Journey (Pathfinder or Sailor test overwhelmingly, but possibly another test given the obstacle/problem area) counts toward Adventure phase.Multi-Leg - TB1 calls this a "pre-adventure" Adventure.  Essentially, this is a reskinned Mouse Guard Mission.  You've got 3 to 4 linked obstacles/problem areas where you deal with each one at a time and they should be diverse (like the LMM discusses and just like the Mouse Guard Mission instruction entails).  This is Adventure phase.  Add this up with a Short Adventure and you've got # of obstacles/problem areas = Medium Adventure!Wilderness Adventure - Employ Adventure Design procedures as normal.[HR][/HR]With those relationships to Adventure Design, it becomes straight-forward in adding up the extra obstacles to the Adventure and just subtracting one from the Adventure to net the total problem areas/obstacles or adding 3-4 to turn a Short Adventure into a Medium one.  Toll-tallying + Roles adds another layer to the whole affair that makes things (a) much more variable, (b) more book-keeping intensive, and (c) likely more arduous for both for both players and GMs in managing play.  Its not clear to me that "the juice is worth the squeeze" of those two things.  The game is already deeply complex and book-keeping intensive as is.  When I reviewed it, it also wasn't clear to me that the decision-points inherent to course-charting + Toll-tallying + Roles are particularly provocative and interesting.  IMO, the problem area/obstacle framing > LEDATR (Listen, Explore, Decide, Act, Test, Result) Loop is what is important to the Adventure phase (along with all the other layers of Grind, Light, Checks, Inventory Management, etc).  That is what I want out of Journey/Wilderness Adventuring (along with course-charting).  Adding another layer on top seemed (seems) one of the only questionable decisions in the new ruleset.</blockquote>

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