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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8546718" data-attributes="member: 6696971">This is a keen observation. GMing Torchbearer is very similar to GMing Dungeon World in precisely the way you've mentioned.  When you're resolving failure, looking at Condition + Success as a harder (soft/hard move continuum) version of the 7-9 result is extremely apt (its like getting a success but earning a Debility).  Looking at Twists as a softer version of the 7-9 result is also apt (though some Twists might be harder, or much harder, than others).  Winning a Conflict but enduring either a minor or half compromise is akin to a 7-9 result. Looking at success in tests as a 10+ result is apt.  Winning a Conflict but enduring no compromise is akin to a 10+ result.Losing a test is akin to a 6- result in that it feeds into Advancement whereas losing a Conflict (though here, there is relatively extreme nuance in both procedures and outputs I'd say) is akin to 6- because of the fallout.The treatment of Journeys and Cohorts shares a lot of overlap in the two games.The main differences would be (a) the intensity of the focus of Gear/Inventory (its absolutely present in DW, though its not nearly as potent as in TB) on play, (b) the impact of The Grind in TB, (c) the potency of the demands of Light in TB (those are certainly present in DW though neither as prolific nor as impactful), (d) how prolific and impactful Help is in TB (this is much more akin to Blades).  Then, of course, you have (e) the nature of spontaneous map generation in DW vs the hexcrawling nature of an established map in TB.  You have (f) the heavily structured play loop and intense procedures of TB vs the structured free form of DW.  Finally, (g) DW is a big damn hero, Action Adventure game vs the very grim, Points of Light struggle against a world positioned to (and in part delights in) make your life a struggle.  DW PCs are extremely potent when compared to TB PCs (though, like Blades, there is a crestable hill in TB where PCs become much more potent and robust than their earlier selves).On dramatic concerns, there are similarities (which is natural given how much DW was inspired by BW).  In both games you have very clear and espoused session goals and ethos/nature statements that are thematic.  These both serve as inputs to content generation (framing, twist generation) and facilitate resource generation and character growth/change/advancement.  Relationships matter and content should be generated around these things (Bonds and then emergent Fronts/Dooms in DW and Circles, enemy, mentor, parents, friends et al in TB) which test their nature, put them in the crosshairs, (creating related Fronts/Dooms in DW and generating Adventures to pursue or Conflicts in TB).Then there are things with similarities but also differences (Lore Master + Wises share some overlap with Spout Lore and the like, but there are also some key differences).Depending upon your vantage at any given moment, you can come away with "wow, these games are quite kindred" and then the next moment "these games are rather far afield from each other."  Its a lot of little things that add up and synergize to make both the GMing experience and the play experience of Dungeon World and Torchbearer rather distinct from each other. I would say the contrast between the two is extremely instructive when considering the general claim of "well 5e D&D can do that" or "5e D&D is basically that."  5e D&D cannot produce anything approximating either the zoomed out or zoomed in visceral experience of those games.  And neither of those games can do each other.  Nor can they do 5e D&D.Its almost like system matters or something!</blockquote>

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