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Torchbearer 2nd ed: first impressions
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8615776" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>This is much more focused than what I was addressing in my post above (about generally belaboring the impact of cognitive states on TTRPGing and how they intersect with OODA Loop which intersects with the shared imagined space).</p><p></p><p>My thoughts on this specific issue is:</p><p></p><p>* Breaking a tie in Torchbearer by bringing in a Trait isn't Fortune in the Beginning/Middle/End. Its not Fortune Resolution at all (its not employing dice, cards, et al; unpredictable, non-behavioral elements). So there is no FitM investigation that needs to be undertaken here. Same thing goes with Acting Within/Outside of Nature.</p><p></p><p>* Its principled, Diceless Resolution or Drama Resolution or Consensus Resolution. And its really not that opaque. Its pretty clear when its Reaching. Are you in Kill Conflict? Is that a party? No? Ok, you can't employ Merrymaking to Act Within Nature or to Help. Does the situation have something about trees, stars, or ancient memories that can be tapped for weal or woe? Great, use First Born. Yes, it is related to fictional positioning but no its not Fortune Resolution.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I've run dozens and dozens and dozens of games that entail descriptor-based currency where you marshal resources based on the intersection of system-based principles and/or social contract. I've also run dozens of games with descriptor-based xp triggers and how they work within the architecture play. Its an interesting conversation and I've had dozens upon dozens of them. The most recent one I've had is when Delight xp trigger is triggered in Stonetop (for my 2nd Stonetop game I'm GMing); like all others it should be when it causes legitimate mischief/conflict - soft move - that requires either (a) a move be made to avoid a hard move follow-up or (b) triggers a hard move that you voluntarily take on the chin or (c) triggers a Grim Portent tick for a Threat or (d) initiates a new Threat). Are you willingly or accidentally violating norms/customs/boundaries/laws/rights to sate your curiosity/exalt in your delight? Are you inviting into your domain an entity that wishes to prey upon your Instincts to entice you toward a fell end? If so...we have some badness to resolve and your Delight Instinct triggers. This is a way for players to dictate the trajectory of play and earn xp for their trouble. Its a carrot/stick combo that players similar to Acting Outside of Nature or using Traits against yourself to earn Checks or Fighting for Your Belief in a situation that leads to an extremely dangerous Kill Conflict for a downstream Fate Point.</p><p></p><p>Resolving these things at the table is not difficult (particularly when the principles/best practice of play are clear and the descriptors are possessed of thematic heft or in clarity in instruction). I think in all of the games I've run with these things, I've probably run into actual table disputes of any consequences to handling time/hard feelings it was way inside a handful of times (so inconsequential that I can barely even recall any offhand). And that is GMing thousands of hours worth of play that involved employing descriptor-based currency contingent upon a relevant match with fictional positioning.</p><p></p><p>Where are all of these dastardly, insincere players that ENWorld GMs goes on and on and on and on and on about! Its like their Game Theoretical Model of what actually happens in the wild is instructed from an alternate reality (certainly alternate than the one I've experienced)! [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER] , [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] , and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] (the 3 players in one of my TB2 games) don't match that profile and our play thus far hasn't been saddled with descriptor-based hardship! And while I've known AA for a long while on the boards, I've only recently become friends with niklinna and kenada so they've very little reason to not treat me and our play as disposable (except for the typical reason of being a decent, honest person who appreciates integrity of play and enjoys a fun game...which is pretty much my experience with players except for an extremely small minority!).</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT - One final thought on playing with integrity. I have to winder if all of this ENWorld hostility to players and extreme wariness of players playing without integrity/cheating is because the bulk of folks here have internalized such an extremely adversarial model of GM vs players that they don't understand an alternative one. An alternative model where everyone is playing with integrity and players police themselves against any possible integrity-impugning play.</p><p></p><p>In my experience in these sorts of games (and everyone I've GMed for on here can chime in on this; which is a decent chunk of folks)? I have to actually insert a perspective that affords leniency which my players won't give themselves! The overwhelming bulk of my actual mediation in our play is to relax players from their self-policing impulse!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8615776, member: 6696971"] This is much more focused than what I was addressing in my post above (about generally belaboring the impact of cognitive states on TTRPGing and how they intersect with OODA Loop which intersects with the shared imagined space). My thoughts on this specific issue is: * Breaking a tie in Torchbearer by bringing in a Trait isn't Fortune in the Beginning/Middle/End. Its not Fortune Resolution at all (its not employing dice, cards, et al; unpredictable, non-behavioral elements). So there is no FitM investigation that needs to be undertaken here. Same thing goes with Acting Within/Outside of Nature. * Its principled, Diceless Resolution or Drama Resolution or Consensus Resolution. And its really not that opaque. Its pretty clear when its Reaching. Are you in Kill Conflict? Is that a party? No? Ok, you can't employ Merrymaking to Act Within Nature or to Help. Does the situation have something about trees, stars, or ancient memories that can be tapped for weal or woe? Great, use First Born. Yes, it is related to fictional positioning but no its not Fortune Resolution. I've run dozens and dozens and dozens of games that entail descriptor-based currency where you marshal resources based on the intersection of system-based principles and/or social contract. I've also run dozens of games with descriptor-based xp triggers and how they work within the architecture play. Its an interesting conversation and I've had dozens upon dozens of them. The most recent one I've had is when Delight xp trigger is triggered in Stonetop (for my 2nd Stonetop game I'm GMing); like all others it should be when it causes legitimate mischief/conflict - soft move - that requires either (a) a move be made to avoid a hard move follow-up or (b) triggers a hard move that you voluntarily take on the chin or (c) triggers a Grim Portent tick for a Threat or (d) initiates a new Threat). Are you willingly or accidentally violating norms/customs/boundaries/laws/rights to sate your curiosity/exalt in your delight? Are you inviting into your domain an entity that wishes to prey upon your Instincts to entice you toward a fell end? If so...we have some badness to resolve and your Delight Instinct triggers. This is a way for players to dictate the trajectory of play and earn xp for their trouble. Its a carrot/stick combo that players similar to Acting Outside of Nature or using Traits against yourself to earn Checks or Fighting for Your Belief in a situation that leads to an extremely dangerous Kill Conflict for a downstream Fate Point. Resolving these things at the table is not difficult (particularly when the principles/best practice of play are clear and the descriptors are possessed of thematic heft or in clarity in instruction). I think in all of the games I've run with these things, I've probably run into actual table disputes of any consequences to handling time/hard feelings it was way inside a handful of times (so inconsequential that I can barely even recall any offhand). And that is GMing thousands of hours worth of play that involved employing descriptor-based currency contingent upon a relevant match with fictional positioning. Where are all of these dastardly, insincere players that ENWorld GMs goes on and on and on and on and on about! Its like their Game Theoretical Model of what actually happens in the wild is instructed from an alternate reality (certainly alternate than the one I've experienced)! [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER] , [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] , and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] (the 3 players in one of my TB2 games) don't match that profile and our play thus far hasn't been saddled with descriptor-based hardship! And while I've known AA for a long while on the boards, I've only recently become friends with niklinna and kenada so they've very little reason to not treat me and our play as disposable (except for the typical reason of being a decent, honest person who appreciates integrity of play and enjoys a fun game...which is pretty much my experience with players except for an extremely small minority!). EDIT - One final thought on playing with integrity. I have to winder if all of this ENWorld hostility to players and extreme wariness of players playing without integrity/cheating is because the bulk of folks here have internalized such an extremely adversarial model of GM vs players that they don't understand an alternative one. An alternative model where everyone is playing with integrity and players police themselves against any possible integrity-impugning play. In my experience in these sorts of games (and everyone I've GMed for on here can chime in on this; which is a decent chunk of folks)? I have to actually insert a perspective that affords leniency which my players won't give themselves! The overwhelming bulk of my actual mediation in our play is to relax players from their self-policing impulse! [/QUOTE]
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