Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 7617000" data-attributes="member: 2445">I think a basic concept is being forgotten with respect to torture/magical compulsion and societal laws.&nbsp; Throughout most of history, the concept of &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot; did not exist.&nbsp; It was a radical idea when the US judicial system adopted the concept.&nbsp; Even today it can be seen not everyone is committed to the concept.So in most societies in history, the idea of using torture/compulsion was used to extract a confession of someone that is already presumed guilty.&nbsp; Torture is very effective in that regard.I would also point out that Intimidation is based upon Charisma by default.&nbsp; It definitely doesn't imply torture to use this skill.&nbsp; Intimidation is just the act of making someone fearful.&nbsp; When a prosecutor piles charges upon an accused, they are trying to intimidate them into accepting a plea deal -- the prosecutor isn't actually involved in torturing the accused (unless prolonged solitary incarceration is involved). Implying that certain embarrassing information could become public is as much more inline with the skill than physical violence.As far a players using torture to get information?&nbsp; In 4 decades of playing/running RPGs, I cannot recall a single instance of anything that went beyond some PCs slapping around a NPC to get some info -- even in really dark games.&nbsp; From a modern moral perspective, PCs are much more likely to be engaged in war crimes.&nbsp; It is rare to see PCs that are willing to capture and hand over their captives to law enforcement to be tried.&nbsp; Generally PCs act as judge, jury, and executioner as prisoner management is a PITA. This just seems like a straw man topic to me.&nbsp; PCs generally don't have enough time to engage in &quot;effective&quot; torture.&nbsp; If threats are not sufficient to &quot;break&quot; an NPC, then 5 minutes of torture isn't going to either.&nbsp; As a DM, I agree that how you hand out information and what kind of time pressures you place on the PCs generally make torture useless.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WaterRabbit, post: 7617000, member: 2445"] I think a basic concept is being forgotten with respect to torture/magical compulsion and societal laws. Throughout most of history, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" did not exist. It was a radical idea when the US judicial system adopted the concept. Even today it can be seen not everyone is committed to the concept. So in most societies in history, the idea of using torture/compulsion was used to extract a confession of someone that is already presumed guilty. Torture is very effective in that regard. I would also point out that Intimidation is based upon Charisma by default. It definitely doesn't imply torture to use this skill. Intimidation is just the act of making someone fearful. When a prosecutor piles charges upon an accused, they are trying to intimidate them into accepting a plea deal -- the prosecutor isn't actually involved in torturing the accused (unless prolonged solitary incarceration is involved). Implying that certain embarrassing information could become public is as much more inline with the skill than physical violence. As far a players using torture to get information? In 4 decades of playing/running RPGs, I cannot recall a single instance of anything that went beyond some PCs slapping around a NPC to get some info -- even in really dark games. From a modern moral perspective, PCs are much more likely to be engaged in war crimes. It is rare to see PCs that are willing to capture and hand over their captives to law enforcement to be tried. Generally PCs act as judge, jury, and executioner as prisoner management is a PITA. This just seems like a straw man topic to me. PCs generally don't have enough time to engage in "effective" torture. If threats are not sufficient to "break" an NPC, then 5 minutes of torture isn't going to either. As a DM, I agree that how you hand out information and what kind of time pressures you place on the PCs generally make torture useless. [/QUOTE]

Verification