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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1361417" data-attributes="member: 8439">yeah, my though on the thread title was just "don't, unless the player is on board." if the player is ok with this massive a non combat event in the life of the character, work with him to determine a good outcome. I have to say if a DM threw this at a character of mine out of the blue, the character would be retired, and depending on the circumstances, there's a good chance I'd leave the game.Is this a openly agreed upon "vile" game? If not, DM imposed tourture of a PC is out to begin with. Its just not appropriate to throw into a standard game. (I don't know how explicitly the dark themes of ravenloft are played out, but generally "should have expected it" isn't good enough for me.) Since a bad expereince with a DM who tossed vile themes in without warning or agreement, I've started addressing the issues of 'rating' and pc plot immunity up front with new gaming groups to make sure everyone is on the same page. If I actually find a group that is interested in a non pc immune vile game, there will be some important additions to skills, feats, spells and equiptment to reflect those dangers.Kahuna Burger</blockquote>