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Touch attack for Evard's Black Tentacles?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 2231160" data-attributes="member: 5122"><p>Except not.</p><p></p><p><em>Blade barrier</em> specifies the conditions under which someone in the same square as the barrier may take damage: "If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are." In later rounds, you are not evoking the barrier such that it appears where creatures are; they therefore do not take damage.</p><p></p><p><em>Flaming sphere</em> specifies the conditions under which someone in the same square as the sphere may take damage: "If it enters a space with a creature." In later rounds, unless moved, the sphere is not entering a creature's space; therefore it does not take damage.</p><p></p><p><em>Black tentacles</em> has no such limiting language. It says, instead, "Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check." It doesn't say "only when the spell is cast." It doesn't say "when the tentacles appear." The only test it offers is: "Is this a creature within the area of the spell?" If the answer is "yes," the creature is subject to being grappled.</p><p></p><p>If <em>blade barrier</em> instead read that a Reflex save to avoid damage were required if the barrier occupied the same space as a creature, would you be arguing that after one Reflex save the creature never had to make another, even if it continued to occupy the same space as the barrier? If <em>flaming sphere</em> instead read that a Reflex save were required when the sphere occupies the same space as a creature, would you be arguing that after one Reflex save the creature never had to make another, even if it continued to occupy the same space as the sphere?</p><p></p><p>I highly doubt it.</p><p></p><p>Yet that is what <em>black tentacles</em> says: "If you're in the area of the spell, you need to make a grapple check."</p><p></p><p><em>Blade barrier</em> and <em>flaming sphere</em> (and many other spells) require elements <em>in addition to</em> being within their "area." <em>Black tentacles</em> simply does not.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 2231160, member: 5122"] Except not. [i]Blade barrier[/i] specifies the conditions under which someone in the same square as the barrier may take damage: "If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are." In later rounds, you are not evoking the barrier such that it appears where creatures are; they therefore do not take damage. [i]Flaming sphere[/i] specifies the conditions under which someone in the same square as the sphere may take damage: "If it enters a space with a creature." In later rounds, unless moved, the sphere is not entering a creature's space; therefore it does not take damage. [i]Black tentacles[/i] has no such limiting language. It says, instead, "Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check." It doesn't say "only when the spell is cast." It doesn't say "when the tentacles appear." The only test it offers is: "Is this a creature within the area of the spell?" If the answer is "yes," the creature is subject to being grappled. If [i]blade barrier[/i] instead read that a Reflex save to avoid damage were required if the barrier occupied the same space as a creature, would you be arguing that after one Reflex save the creature never had to make another, even if it continued to occupy the same space as the barrier? If [i]flaming sphere[/i] instead read that a Reflex save were required when the sphere occupies the same space as a creature, would you be arguing that after one Reflex save the creature never had to make another, even if it continued to occupy the same space as the sphere? I highly doubt it. Yet that is what [i]black tentacles[/i] says: "If you're in the area of the spell, you need to make a grapple check." [i]Blade barrier[/i] and [i]flaming sphere[/i] (and many other spells) require elements [i]in addition to[/i] being within their "area." [i]Black tentacles[/i] simply does not. [/QUOTE]
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Touch attack for Evard's Black Tentacles?
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