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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1185061" data-attributes="member: 151">Well, speaking as a DM of a 3+ year game, whose players are now 21st level, I would argue that you and your group are atypical.  My group doesn't meet every week, and we only run 4-6 hour sessions...and we use book standard advancement with virtually no house rules.  The party is a group of six, and we used Forge of Fury and Sunless Citadel as written (as well as Heart of Nightfang Spire, for the most part). That said, a high intiative is unimportant....after the first round.  As hong pointed out, by 10th level, it becomes critical to strike first.  Tell the Arcane Archer and Shadowdancer in my game that initiative doesn't count, and they'll look at you oddly.  The shadowdancer gets big benefits out of going first, as she can usually catch opponents flat-footed or throw down a scroll with dimensional anchor or the like to alter the combat field in the party's favor.  The archer can usually take out a significant opponent or throw them on the defensive at the start....and making that Blackweave Warlock choose to Dim Door away, rather than throw another Horrid Wilting, is a big deal. In high level play, particularly, a battle is often decided within the first round, even if it isn't certain for several more rounds.  Getting off that Greater Dispelling before the Lich makes his move may another party member to penetrate his defenses.  And so on, and so forth.  If the Lich wins the initiative, and he casts a quickened Feeblemind and then a Maze on someone...you're in a world full of hurt.  Worse if it's an Imprisonment.  And woe be the party who looses initiative to an eye tyrant.  Kiss three of your members goodbye, if the dice are unkind.  Prismatic Spray, anyone?  How about losing to that Fighter/OOBI and being flatfooted?  See Piratecat's story hour for what happens there. My players are quite cautious, as our story hour (linked below) would show you.  However, they know that there are times when they won't hold the element of suprise, or they won't be able to control the battle.  When that happens, Initiative counts.  Big time.</blockquote>

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