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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1185393" data-attributes="member: 10201">Just for the record, I've got 20 years GMing experience under my belt, with one 8yr (8hr weekly games) AD&D2 campaign, several shorter campaigns in various systems, one-offs in literally dozens of systems, and large swaths of time where i was running 2, 3, or 4 weekly games, and a couple of original games nearing publication.  I've probably got 6yrs time put in as a player (always the GM, never the player...), and have played in almost as many different games as i've run.  Not to mention the several dozen other games i've read or watched others play. I've played with a large variety of groups--heck, only one other player was constant for that whole D&D3E game.  And i regularly run games for people who are new to me and/or new to RPing in general (weekly for the last 6 years, plus conventions, for example).  So i've got a *vast* variety of experience. It just doesn't happen to be much of it with D&D3E.  You're welcome to say that i have an extremely limited persperctive when it comes to fine nuances of D&D3E--it's probably true.  But the person who only (or mostly only) plays D&D3E is the one with a lack of perspective--i may lack knowledge of the rules, but not perspective.  In fact, i'd say it simultaneously gives me a less-narrow view of things, because i'm comparing to games where quickness/initiative actually have an impact beyond the first round.  Heck, from what i've seen of the fluid initiative system in Spycraft (haven't had a chance to actually play it), even that is a vast improvement, while well within the structure of D20 System.  Can a lot happen in the 1st round of a battle in D&D3E, especially at high levels?  Yes.  Does that make high initiative "very important"?  IMHO, no.  The fact that the first round *can* be decisive does not, IMHO, overshadow the fact that in all later rounds initiative is essentially meaningless.  Add in the fact that the die roll has more impact on initiative than the modifiers, and it becomes pretty much a crapshoot, so that the Dex impact on initiative is considerably less significant than whatever impact initiative has on the game.  Which was really my original point, made oh-so-poorly: counting the fact that Dex impacts initiative as a "major" factor in the importance of Dex is significantly overstating the case.  And since initiative is rolled considerably less often than attack rolls, the averaging nature of multiple die rolls is far less apparent.  As i said, my +7 initiative made my character almost always last in the round, while the guy with the +1 was usually 1st or 2nd--just because he usually rolled well, and i usually didn't.-----Now, as for your implied attack: so, tell me how i *should* take advantage of initiative for a sub-10th level character?  And how these strategies are still of help if i roll a 2 for my initiative?  Maybe i'm forgetting something, but is there any way to guarantee even a >10 initiative total?  In my (apparently limited) experience, the problem isn't using the high initiative, it's getting it in the first place.  As i said before, there was one definite case where we got the drop on someone and used the surprise round to devastating effect (i forget, but i think we also mostly won the initiative for that encounter), cleaning up what should have been a very tough foe in something like 3 rounds--Dispel Magic, lead with heavy ranged attack spells, protected monk zips in and keeps the spellcaster busy, the whole works.  Within the limits our characters imposed, i think we did pretty well.  But there's nothing you can do to make sure you get the initiative, is there?  How does one create/play a "high initiative character"?  I know how to play one with  a high initiative bonus, but, as i have demonstrated empirically, that doesn't guarantee (or even strongly influence) a high initiative total.</blockquote>

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