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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Infiniti2000" data-source="post: 2539101" data-attributes="member: 31734">You realize of course that you can't claim the hypothesis as true to prove the hypothesis?  Since we're debating Divine Reach, you can't make an assumption on Divine Reach and claim it as proof of your assumption on Divine Reach.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  Well, the spectal hand itself is not Range: Touch, but it does deliver Range: Touch spells.  I'd have to say that spectral hand really has no relevance in this discussion.  It does not change the spell, but delivers it.  I'd be interested in more discussion on this, though, if you want. Yes, I'm aware of what it means.  And, specifically in the case for the OP what it doesn't mean. It says that you can use touch spells on targets up to 30ft away.  That explicitly changes the Range, does it not?  So, how do you categorize the Range?  I don't mean this to be snippy, just clarification-gathering, but I think you need to choose one of the following:1. Range: Touch -- impossible as Touch spells have no range2. Range: 30ft -- every spell usable at range has this format (or close, medium, long, etc.)3. Range: Touch at 30ft (or Ranged Touch 30ft) -- brand new format, not specified in the Divine/Arcane Reach description and not explicitly supported anywhereI can't see it being anything other than #2. #1 is clearly wrong.  #3 is possibly, but I'd have to say it's a houserule and it has implications much like choosing #2.I don't have my books at work, so can someone look up the text on Reach Spell?  Does it say "ray"?</blockquote>

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