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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Afrodyte" data-source="post: 1436148" data-attributes="member: 8713"><p>As a player and a DM, I hate min-maxing when it shifts the focus of the game from the party to the antics of a single character or player (which is often).  Of course, there are other player habits that can do likewise, but the topic of this thread is min-maxing.  The fun for me comes in being able to play my character.  A lot of times, with a flagrant min-maxer in the group, I can't do that because the time that could be spent in meaningful interaction (ie: non-random encounter) is instead spent doing things only the min-maxer enjoys.  Put bluntly, min-maxers make it harder for me to do the things I like when I play or DM.</p></blockquote><p></p>