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<blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 1436656" data-attributes="member: 6398">Not as touchy as your avatar.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> &nbsp;Seriously, I have no &quot;hate&quot; for min/maxers on a whole, but rather I have had bad experiences with individual min/maxers at my table.&nbsp; Generally, it stems around their desire for a concept, one that is often shallow story-wise and mostly about numbers, but which requires the inclusion of elements I chose not to include in my game.&nbsp; One example of which was one guy that spent three hour long arguement over whether I had the right as a GM to determine that Half-Dragons aren't in the world (as PCs or NPCs).&nbsp;I had another individual that gave me a hard time over not disclosing what Prestige Classes were available, whining about the fact that almost all of the Prestige Classes are written by myself exclusively, and that Prestige Classes from various supplements, splat books, or the Dragon Magazine weren't allowed, claiming that I was intentionally screwing him over.&nbsp;My favorite was a min/maxer that joined us briefly while still playing 2E.&nbsp; He naturally chose all these RP-based hindrances and gained all sorts of combative/survivalist boons.&nbsp; And then game play began and he realized that, with our game focused mostly on RP-based interaction and problem solving, that the hindrances he was used to being irrelevant in other games were actual hindrances at our table that affected him far more than his boosts helped him.&nbsp;(He left because we were &quot;too advanced&quot; for his tastes, whatever that means...)&nbsp;So, no, on a whole, I don't have a disliking of those that min/max; But previous experience does often cause me to determine the individual's style and preferences before inviting them to join.&nbsp;On the other hand, the proposed definition in the Tweaker thread (even if &quot;Tweaker&quot; is dumped as a name) describes min/maxers I don't have a problem with: They min/max using the available options, with knowledge that versatility rather than uber-specialization makes for more viable characters in our game, and have fun, rather than complain endlessly about options they feel that they have a right to choose regardless of the gaming environment (ruining everyone else's fun and quickly being shown the door).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bendris Noulg, post: 1436656, member: 6398"] Not as touchy as your avatar.:p Seriously, I have no "hate" for min/maxers on a whole, but rather I have had bad experiences with individual min/maxers at my table. Generally, it stems around their desire for a concept, one that is often shallow story-wise and mostly about numbers, but which requires the inclusion of elements I chose not to include in my game. One example of which was one guy that spent three hour long arguement over whether I had the [i]right[/i] as a GM to determine that Half-Dragons aren't in the world (as PCs or NPCs). I had another individual that gave me a hard time over not disclosing what Prestige Classes were available, whining about the fact that almost all of the Prestige Classes are written by myself exclusively, and that Prestige Classes from various supplements, splat books, or the Dragon Magazine weren't allowed, claiming that I was intentionally screwing him over. My favorite was a min/maxer that joined us briefly while still playing 2E. He naturally chose all these RP-based hindrances and gained all sorts of combative/survivalist boons. And then game play began and he realized that, with our game focused mostly on RP-based interaction and problem solving, that the hindrances he was used to being irrelevant in other games were actual hindrances at our table that affected him far more than his boosts helped him. (He left because we were "too advanced" for his tastes, whatever that means...) So, no, on a whole, I don't have a disliking of those that min/max; But previous experience does often cause me to determine the individual's style and preferences before inviting them to join. On the other hand, the proposed definition in the Tweaker thread (even if "Tweaker" is dumped as a name) describes min/maxers I don't have a problem with: They min/max using the available options, with knowledge that versatility rather than uber-specialization makes for more viable characters in our game, and have fun, rather than complain endlessly about options they feel that they have a right to choose regardless of the gaming environment (ruining everyone else's fun and quickly being shown the door). [/QUOTE]

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