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<blockquote data-quote="ph0rk" data-source="post: 1436983" data-attributes="member: 16266">With all of the whining about min maxing, I honestly don't see why some of you play any rpgs using the d20 system at all.&nbsp; The system was made so that players can tinker and make interesting (numericly and thematicaly) characters through multiclassing and feat selection; In short complaining about min maxing is complaining about the very heart of 3e and 3.5e.It is possible for a player to spend hours tinkering with a character build, and to not be disruptive in play. It is also possible for a player to spend -no- time building their character and to be utterly disruptive in play.I would take issue with the statement that maxing Int or Cha for skills isn't as 'bad' as maxing combat abilities; I've often seen such characters spend so much time of &quot;rp-ing&quot; on their own to showcase their skills that the game is a drag for everyone else.In short: Pointbuy limits multiclass combinations and feats available. Willy-nilly ability selection/generation is going to on the one hand create player characters with vastly different levels of ability, and facility some otherwise difficult or impossible multiclass combos.&nbsp; Even with a 32 pointbuy, distributing ability points to make an effective arcane trickster requires sacrifice.&nbsp; If you &quot;rolled up&quot; scores along the lines of 15 16 12 9 18 17, it requires no such sacrifice.Player characters with vastly differing power levels can cause a DM trouble, but the more uniform character creation is, the less that is an issue from the onset.&nbsp; As for specialization vs generalization; it is silly to wish to penalize players or their characters for trying to excel at one area.&nbsp; No character is inherently immune from all obstacles (though unwise distribution of magical items can make them almost so).Honestly I get the idea that those loudest about the evils of Min-Maxing just don't really understand the rules, and loathe those that do.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ph0rk, post: 1436983, member: 16266"] With all of the whining about min maxing, I honestly don't see why some of you play any rpgs using the d20 system at all. The system was made so that players can tinker and make interesting (numericly and thematicaly) characters through multiclassing and feat selection; In short complaining about min maxing is complaining about the very heart of 3e and 3.5e. It is possible for a player to spend hours tinkering with a character build, and to not be disruptive in play. It is also possible for a player to spend -no- time building their character and to be utterly disruptive in play. I would take issue with the statement that maxing Int or Cha for skills isn't as 'bad' as maxing combat abilities; I've often seen such characters spend so much time of "rp-ing" on their own to showcase their skills that the game is a drag for everyone else. In short: Pointbuy limits multiclass combinations and feats available. Willy-nilly ability selection/generation is going to on the one hand create player characters with vastly different levels of ability, and facility some otherwise difficult or impossible multiclass combos. Even with a 32 pointbuy, distributing ability points to make an effective arcane trickster requires sacrifice. If you "rolled up" scores along the lines of 15 16 12 9 18 17, it requires no such sacrifice. Player characters with vastly differing power levels can cause a DM trouble, but the more uniform character creation is, the less that is an issue from the onset. As for specialization vs generalization; it is silly to wish to penalize players or their characters for trying to excel at one area. No character is inherently immune from all obstacles (though unwise distribution of magical items can make them almost so). Honestly I get the idea that those loudest about the evils of Min-Maxing just don't really understand the rules, and loathe those that do. [/QUOTE]

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