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<blockquote data-quote="ph0rk" data-source="post: 1437454" data-attributes="member: 16266">I would argue, however, that if a not overly generous system is used at character creation (pointbuy, for example) then even the most rigorous min-maxing won't help overmuch...Unless someone just -wants- to make a fighter with a str of 11 and use a greatsword.&nbsp; Though in that case I'm not sure who is the dull one; the character or the player.Even without min/maxing, all character types will overshadow others in some way - if one character is able to overshadow all the time though I'd have to say the DM is doing something wrong.&nbsp; Perhaps the other players need some character counciling, for example?Mind, whether using pointbuy or not, if someone chooses to specialize in something other than combat (skills, turning ability, etc) and then has the gumption to whine about not being a superstar in combat, they'd get a nasty glare. (Or an orc sandwich, depending on whether I'm in the DM chair or not.)Perhaps there are some skill-maxers out there that felt outshined by damage-maxers?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ph0rk, post: 1437454, member: 16266"] I would argue, however, that if a not overly generous system is used at character creation (pointbuy, for example) then even the most rigorous min-maxing won't help overmuch... Unless someone just -wants- to make a fighter with a str of 11 and use a greatsword. Though in that case I'm not sure who is the dull one; the character or the player. Even without min/maxing, all character types will overshadow others in some way - if one character is able to overshadow all the time though I'd have to say the DM is doing something wrong. Perhaps the other players need some character counciling, for example? Mind, whether using pointbuy or not, if someone chooses to specialize in something other than combat (skills, turning ability, etc) and then has the gumption to whine about not being a superstar in combat, they'd get a nasty glare. (Or an orc sandwich, depending on whether I'm in the DM chair or not.) Perhaps there are some skill-maxers out there that felt outshined by damage-maxers? [/QUOTE]

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