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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JoeGKushner" data-source="post: 5046516" data-attributes="member: 1129">And what you wrote was... "Originally Posted by Celebrim  I've said from very early on that 4e was very carefully crafted to produce a particular play experience, which however enjoyable it might be, made it impossible to play D&D the way I'd played it for 20+ years across 3 editions. Conversations like this only reinforce that belief." So talking about the exact same scenario in previous editions in reply to where you talk about 4e having this problem comes across as the exact opposite of understanding eh? Your reading is different than mine.In a fantasy game where players are masters of magic, martial arts that can split steel, and back stab entities that have no vital organs... your wrong. In some generic recreational historical game, you'd be right. In D&D? Nope. As noted before, depending on their class, they'd wear if it that was where they gained their armor class. Not every class has this restriction. In 4e, those divisions are even reduced further with heavy armor not being the end all be all of previous editions and not being as much a rules enforcement as it sometimes was for those who played fighters and paladins. Then it shouldn't be a problem. I'm stating that if you screw with the players based on their equipment, they will find ways to be more self sufficient and play classes that don't rely on if. If that's not a problem for your group then it's not something you have to worry about. So you don't want to ambush the players except when you ambush them... right.And as I noted, if you do it too often, they'll avoid that by playing characters that don't need the armor and don't suffer the hindrance of it's loss. And this is where a game system that doesn't rely on magic items and specifics, like say 4e, can shine. If your not playing characters that rely on heavy armor, then these scenarios you mention vanish. The Swordmange and other classes don't necessarily have to worry about the whole losing +4 plate. Same as ye old Monk, Psionicist, Sorcerer, Wizard, etc... didn't have to in previous editions.But they could. For example, high level characters, in most editions, tend to have similiar armor classes. It's generally a matter of player taste how that is accomplished mechanically. Those rogues and mages who have ACs almost or better than the fighters don't get them from plate mail. For those classes, yes, it's essentially eliminated from existence. Lower level play is even more like that as high ability scores can make up for mid level armors easily. Mages have very low level spells that mimick the benefits of armor without having to carry it. The mechanics, if prone to GM abuse, of wearing armor, are easy to avoid for a group that doesn't want to deal with it.</blockquote>

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