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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8706029" data-attributes="member: 4937">So, we've known each other for a long time, and I know you to be a very passionate and forceful writer who is not afraid to be frank about their opinions.  And that's OK.  You'll note of the increasingly long list of posters that I've found I have to block for the sake of my sanity, you've never managed to be on that list despite all the borderline acrimony that has been between us.But what I'm saying here and the point I'm trying to make is I don't think that's a remotely fair take on how the edition wars played out at EnWorld.  It wasn't that I was jumping into every positive 4e discussions that was going on or even many of the positive 4e discussions to crap on people's fun.  I agree that there would have been no point.  Heck, I remember jumping into 4e discussions to help people design for the edition - the Thardizun thread for example - even as I at the same time was increasingly certain this edition was not for me.So maybe that was going on and I just didn't have perspective on it because 4e positive discussions weren't things I was all the time partaking in.  What I do know is that if I partook in any sort of skeptical 4e discussion where I was critical of whether "the math was fixed" or whether triggered abilities would in play result in speedier combats or whether 4e really was a Nar game or whether the concept of the Skill Challenge was really good design or whatever, that every single time I had 4e supporters come and tell me I was a mental defective for not liking 4e and that I was probably a bad person and a bad DM etc. etc.   So from my perspective it seemed that the real toxic people where the people who could tolerate no criticism whatsoever of 4e, and that the toxicity wasn't at all solely or even mostly coming from people who preferred 3e.  So maybe that's just my perspective and I didn't know the whole story that was going on at the time because I only sample a small percentage of threads (especially about something like 4e), but it's real and valid perspective.I really like the (+) innovation here at EnWorld where the OP signals that they aren't interested in their premise being challenged.  I'm like totally on board that. But it wasn't just the people who didn't like 4e who were taking "large steaming dumps in the middle of EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION" as you so descriptively put it.</blockquote>

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