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Toxicity in the Fandom
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<blockquote data-quote="BB Shockwave" data-source="post: 8710025" data-attributes="member: 6799257"><p>I think this is not a description of being "toxic" (which still, is not a word to be used when we have better ones to describe this behavior).</p><p>Instead, all the scenarios here are cases where the person saying these things got too <u>personal</u>.</p><p>"I don't like Planescape, and <u>those who do aren't real D&D fans</u>."</p><p>"I don't like Planescape, so I'm going to tweet mean things <u>about its creators</u>."</p><p>"I like Planescape, and if you don't, it means <u>you're a grognard</u>."</p><p></p><p>This is not someone being "toxic", this is what we on forum terms call flaming or trolling someone. In one case, other forum members, on another, directly the creators. </p><p></p><p>What <strong>Celebrim</strong> posted right below your post is, I feel a perfect example of someone sharing their opinion about a product they feel is being mishandled and it is to me, not insulting anyone who likes said product because it just describes the feelings the poster - and other similar-minded people - feel about this. </p><p>And one thing I hate more than someone calling this "toxic" is when after such a post like the one Celebrim posted is added, some Brainy Smurf type to pop up to <em>'Actually'</em> this by saying <em>"Well you are being subjective and you could have added this is just your opinion, man."</em></p><p>OF COURSE it is my opinion, why would anyone say anything about a subject that is NOT their opinion? Unless we can cast ESP on the whole fandom, we will never be able to know and tell the opinion of the fandom, or even guess at percentages about opinions. We are all just sharing our own. If you are a part of the fandom and you have an opinion on it, you cannot, by definition, be objective about it. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I was "lucky" to have caught that episode on TV once - I otherwise dropped out of the show after episode 3. I am a huge fan of Star Trek and like MacFarlane, TNG was my favourite show ever, but his terrible Family Guy potty humor and sitcom antics does not mix well with the weirdly super serious morals he is trying to deliver. It also does not help that his series just screams ripoff to the extent that even various Star Trek races, ships and technologies and organizations have a direct knockoff relation in the Orville (the crappy looking robots are the Borg, the sun-allergic aggressive alien race are basically the Kazon, Bortas and his race are Klingons, etc.)</p><p></p><p>And yes, that whole episode was basically a ripoff of the "facebook points" Black Mirror episode, just without any wit or proper moral. And our 'heroes' got themselves into this by being mind-numbingly stupid in avoiding first contact with a pre-warp civilization. If this was TNG, Picard would have suspended that idiot who got himself scheduled for lobotomization by doing something so disrespectful to another race's culture while being undercover. Just compare this episode with the TNG one where Riker gets accidentally revealed as being an alien, and how much he tries to maintain his cover and undo the damage he has done.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not toxic.</p><p>That's simply racist.</p><p>I wish people would not invent buzzwords and just call things by what they really are.</p><p>I knew a fellow Trek fan who simply told me he never watched much of DS9 because "well it had a black captain". And when I asked why that would be a problem the naughty word quickly hit the fan about what the real issue was... Simply put he had serious prejudice against black people, while not really knowing any personally (we both live in Hungary). I told him to not get bogged down by prejudices and just give the show a chance, and I would tell it to anyone who has such openly racist ideas about characters.</p><p>I mean, Tim Russ was not even the first actor to play a black skinned Vulcan. We had seen a black Vulcan midwife in Star Trek III - The Search for Spock back in 1984 already, and Star Trek V had a high priestess played by a black actress.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I really felt for Boyega as he is a very talented actor and the movies just... threw Finn's character out the window. Well, I think we have Ryan Johnson to blame for most of it, but JJ Abrams is not spotless either.</p><p>The first movie almost immediately forgets that Finn was a kid who was kidnapped from his parents and basically turned into a Jannissary -style child soldier to fight for the First Order. We never get an explanation how he broke his mental conditioning, and a few hours after turning, he is gunning down his fellow stormtroopers without an ounce of regret. Then the movie hints at him maybe being force sensitive, they show his devotion and love to Rey, and... all these are thrown by the wayside and the sequels use him as a comedic character and saddle him with another love interest whom he really does not seem to be into.</p><p>When in the third movie he spends the whole movie trying to say something to Rey, I assumed it was that he loves her, but NOPE!</p><p>Talk about such a major waste of a character. The closest he has come to having an arc was in a deleted scene where he actually turns some of his fellow stormtroopers against Phasma.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BB Shockwave, post: 8710025, member: 6799257"] I think this is not a description of being "toxic" (which still, is not a word to be used when we have better ones to describe this behavior). Instead, all the scenarios here are cases where the person saying these things got too [U]personal[/U]. "I don't like Planescape, and [U]those who do aren't real D&D fans[/U]." "I don't like Planescape, so I'm going to tweet mean things [U]about its creators[/U]." "I like Planescape, and if you don't, it means [U]you're a grognard[/U]." This is not someone being "toxic", this is what we on forum terms call flaming or trolling someone. In one case, other forum members, on another, directly the creators. What [B]Celebrim[/B] posted right below your post is, I feel a perfect example of someone sharing their opinion about a product they feel is being mishandled and it is to me, not insulting anyone who likes said product because it just describes the feelings the poster - and other similar-minded people - feel about this. And one thing I hate more than someone calling this "toxic" is when after such a post like the one Celebrim posted is added, some Brainy Smurf type to pop up to [I]'Actually'[/I] this by saying [I]"Well you are being subjective and you could have added this is just your opinion, man."[/I] OF COURSE it is my opinion, why would anyone say anything about a subject that is NOT[I] [/I]their opinion? Unless we can cast ESP on the whole fandom, we will never be able to know and tell the opinion of the fandom, or even guess at percentages about opinions. We are all just sharing our own. If you are a part of the fandom and you have an opinion on it, you cannot, by definition, be objective about it. [I][/I] I was "lucky" to have caught that episode on TV once - I otherwise dropped out of the show after episode 3. I am a huge fan of Star Trek and like MacFarlane, TNG was my favourite show ever, but his terrible Family Guy potty humor and sitcom antics does not mix well with the weirdly super serious morals he is trying to deliver. It also does not help that his series just screams ripoff to the extent that even various Star Trek races, ships and technologies and organizations have a direct knockoff relation in the Orville (the crappy looking robots are the Borg, the sun-allergic aggressive alien race are basically the Kazon, Bortas and his race are Klingons, etc.) And yes, that whole episode was basically a ripoff of the "facebook points" Black Mirror episode, just without any wit or proper moral. And our 'heroes' got themselves into this by being mind-numbingly stupid in avoiding first contact with a pre-warp civilization. If this was TNG, Picard would have suspended that idiot who got himself scheduled for lobotomization by doing something so disrespectful to another race's culture while being undercover. Just compare this episode with the TNG one where Riker gets accidentally revealed as being an alien, and how much he tries to maintain his cover and undo the damage he has done. That's not toxic. That's simply racist. I wish people would not invent buzzwords and just call things by what they really are. I knew a fellow Trek fan who simply told me he never watched much of DS9 because "well it had a black captain". And when I asked why that would be a problem the naughty word quickly hit the fan about what the real issue was... Simply put he had serious prejudice against black people, while not really knowing any personally (we both live in Hungary). I told him to not get bogged down by prejudices and just give the show a chance, and I would tell it to anyone who has such openly racist ideas about characters. I mean, Tim Russ was not even the first actor to play a black skinned Vulcan. We had seen a black Vulcan midwife in Star Trek III - The Search for Spock back in 1984 already, and Star Trek V had a high priestess played by a black actress. I really felt for Boyega as he is a very talented actor and the movies just... threw Finn's character out the window. Well, I think we have Ryan Johnson to blame for most of it, but JJ Abrams is not spotless either. The first movie almost immediately forgets that Finn was a kid who was kidnapped from his parents and basically turned into a Jannissary -style child soldier to fight for the First Order. We never get an explanation how he broke his mental conditioning, and a few hours after turning, he is gunning down his fellow stormtroopers without an ounce of regret. Then the movie hints at him maybe being force sensitive, they show his devotion and love to Rey, and... all these are thrown by the wayside and the sequels use him as a comedic character and saddle him with another love interest whom he really does not seem to be into. When in the third movie he spends the whole movie trying to say something to Rey, I assumed it was that he loves her, but NOPE! Talk about such a major waste of a character. The closest he has come to having an arc was in a deleted scene where he actually turns some of his fellow stormtroopers against Phasma. [/QUOTE]
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