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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Markn" data-source="post: 1904420" data-attributes="member: 21827">You missed my point...D+1, you missed my point.  I don't track alignment to micromanage, penalize or control the players.  I also believe that the system I use actually minimizes the subjectiveness a great deal.  Actions on a continual basis are used to adjust alignment one way or the other and most acts balance themselves out.  It is when you see a large amount one way or the other that alignments change.  Because there is a great deal of actions required for an alignment change it becomes less and less subjective and most players can logically follow your points.  There may be a point or two that they disagree on but the majority of the points obviously support the conclusion of an alignment change.You and I both agree that alignment is a descriptor and exists to help players play their character.  However, a character is not an alignment because he states that he is but rather he has an alignment that his character quantifies through playing his character.  It is easy for a cleric or paladin to maintain his alignment because he is actively trying to maintiain it.  Other classes are not so simple.  It is easy to play something other than what you have stated on your character sheet.  Thus, the system I use actually quantifies it in actions throughout the long term.  I do not use it to punish the player but there are in game consequences of actions that your character does.  Our campaingns contain a lot of in depth roleplaying.  If a character originally states that he is LG but has been robbing people and doing other seemingly non good acts then this does not represent who he is.  NPC's who have learned accounts of the PC through rumor, legend, information gathering, cohorts and so on then react to that PC in the approrpiate manner.  This actually leads to an in game resolution of alignment rather than out of game discussion between player and dm.  Afterall, the captain of the town guard who has heard that your character has robbed a townsmen will confront the character and question him.  In addition, IF the character is blind to their own action this can serve as a self correcting course as he now sees that NPC's are noticing his actions and are treating him different, be it for good or for ill.  Players can become blind to their own actions and see them in a different light than  what other players and DM's see.  So although you as a player are not obliged in any way, shape or form to follow an alignment there are still consequences to an imbalance of actions.  If they are balanced then there will never be an alignment change or then it denotes that the character does not feel strongly one way or the other and voila - TN.There are also other in game consequences of alignment, like it or not.  Spell like pro good/evil/law/chaos become an important aspect of the game and the same goes for higher level spells.  Spells with an evil or good descriptor now make a player think before he casts it.  Atonement now has a use in the game.  If a player discovers he hasn't been following who he was lately, then atonement can be used.  All in all, alignment change can be just as beneficial as detrimental to a character.  The charts I use are just a simple way to quantify who the character is.Some groups may believe that they need to warn a player about to change alignment but our group has chosen not to.  The simple fact is, alignment is not something you stick to but is something you strive to be.  You don't wake up one morning and decide to be CG instead of LG today.  It is portrayed by actions and if you are going off in a different direction that what you originally decided your character was then maybe the character is growing.  Your day to day actions are who you are and since there is no penalty or bonus to one alignment or another then for the most part it doesn't matter if in the DM's mind you have switched alignment, except of course the in game things I have mentioned above which are hardly earth shattering things to the character.  All in all, the system we use works well for us.  IMHO it works great and I think more people should look at alignment in this light and use it as an in game tool for roleplaying rather than have degenerate discussions of 'Your character wouldn't do' and 'Yes he would...'.Anyway, for those waiting for my chart here it is.  Enjoy.</blockquote>

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