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Trailblazer: Caster Changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4997494" data-attributes="member: 48520"><p>After reading your replies, it seems I must not have read it carefully enough, because I missed alot of this stuff. Most of my concerns (and my thoughts that you would need multiple tables for different spell gain rates) seem to have been covered! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p> Hmm. Yeah, I didn't read over the caster classes as carefully as I should have, I was mostly looking at the table. Having the classes provide bonuses to the table wasn't something I had considered as even an option in that sense so I wasn't looking for it.</p><p> </p><p> So I see. Moved the quote, to show that I pulled a stupid and while I read sections of the pdf carefully, did not read the whole thing cover to cover that way.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>That is pretty close, and I probably would have taken the two 6 and a 5 over a 7, but you're right, some people would definitely choose the 7. I got the 6 spells per rest from my pathfinder book, not 3.5 core, cause the pathfinder book was in front of me, and I hadn't realized that was something that changed (so I didn't bother to dig out my 3.5 players to look up that number).</p><p> </p><p>Which classes gain their spells on the even numbered levels? The casters are all gaining on the odd BMB numbers.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Fair enough; it was just to point out the same thing I though was not converting over to your system. I think it's mostly a non-issue now though, and I could probably make it work now. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p>Alright all of that makes sense. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Hmm. When readying spells, does what you meant by having higher level spells power lower level ones grant the ability to ready spells in higher level slots if necessary, and not justapply to the 'powering' when youre doing the actual casting? Because if yes then if you think you might need more selection of spells of a given level than you have slots to ready you could use a higher slot, and I could see that being useful.</p><p> </p><p>Can you tell me if I'm understanding it right? It makes them essentially all preparation casters in that they use almost the same preparation mechanic, but the spell slots are not held up by the spells prepared anymore, and so you don't need to prepare multiple copies of the same spell.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yep <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It made me re-read more carefully, and you pointed out all the things I was trying to find. </p><p> </p><p>I like your druid nerf btw. It was quite overpowered by RAW. I use Kerrick's wildshape-less druid now, but having seen this druid, If someone wanted a wildshape druid instead of the other types, this is where I'd send them.</p><p> </p><p>You don't seem to have changed the cleric, just set it up to be readably used with the revised spellcasting. I think the cleric is kindof beefy like the druid. Not as bad as the full-casting Dire Bear with a grizzly animal companion, but still pretty superhero compared to other classes. I think for the cleric it depends on if clerics are always dedicated healers though. If they choose to be healers they are ok balance wise, but if they are evil or go the "I'm a neutral cleric, following the god of war (takes appropriate domains) Why would I need to heal the party! I can be a Battle-God!" then theyre similarly imbalanced.</p><p> </p><p>I like the good/evil paladin slant, it makes me consider actually allowing them into my game.</p><p> </p><p>One of the things that I really like about this variant, is that it works well with how I've been redesigning a bunch of monsters.</p><p>If monsters were not HD+LA, but instead Base Race+Racial Levels (where each level is as good as a class level), than I can convert many of the SLAs into caster class progressions, and just give them a custom spell-list, then if they take caster levels, they don't suck! (See the Succubus Wizard/Cleric).</p><p> </p><p>I do have a question about these changes now that I understand how they were built a bit better:</p><p>Could you give me advice on how to deal with updating caster classes to this system, for caster classes that both had access to their entire spell-list, AND spontaneous casting? There are some which are quite useful which my players will want to play. And with those, instead of having them choose spells, they just limited the spell-lists. For those ones, the readied spells system would put a big limit on the number of spells they would have for options in a given encounter. Some of them are quite good in terms of power AND utility, and I wouldnt want to just banhammer the class. I'm assuming you don't want to discuss the specifics of non-OGL classes from what you said above, but answering it for one of these such classes will answer it for all of them, so I'm just asking generically.</p><p> </p><p>Thanks again, these changes make alot more sense now (they already seemed like the right Idea, I just couldnt figure out if all the details worked out, but it appears they do).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sylrae, post: 4997494, member: 48520"] After reading your replies, it seems I must not have read it carefully enough, because I missed alot of this stuff. Most of my concerns (and my thoughts that you would need multiple tables for different spell gain rates) seem to have been covered! :) Hmm. Yeah, I didn't read over the caster classes as carefully as I should have, I was mostly looking at the table. Having the classes provide bonuses to the table wasn't something I had considered as even an option in that sense so I wasn't looking for it. So I see. Moved the quote, to show that I pulled a stupid and while I read sections of the pdf carefully, did not read the whole thing cover to cover that way. That is pretty close, and I probably would have taken the two 6 and a 5 over a 7, but you're right, some people would definitely choose the 7. I got the 6 spells per rest from my pathfinder book, not 3.5 core, cause the pathfinder book was in front of me, and I hadn't realized that was something that changed (so I didn't bother to dig out my 3.5 players to look up that number). Which classes gain their spells on the even numbered levels? The casters are all gaining on the odd BMB numbers. Fair enough; it was just to point out the same thing I though was not converting over to your system. I think it's mostly a non-issue now though, and I could probably make it work now. Alright all of that makes sense. :) Hmm. When readying spells, does what you meant by having higher level spells power lower level ones grant the ability to ready spells in higher level slots if necessary, and not justapply to the 'powering' when youre doing the actual casting? Because if yes then if you think you might need more selection of spells of a given level than you have slots to ready you could use a higher slot, and I could see that being useful. Can you tell me if I'm understanding it right? It makes them essentially all preparation casters in that they use almost the same preparation mechanic, but the spell slots are not held up by the spells prepared anymore, and so you don't need to prepare multiple copies of the same spell. Yep :) It made me re-read more carefully, and you pointed out all the things I was trying to find. I like your druid nerf btw. It was quite overpowered by RAW. I use Kerrick's wildshape-less druid now, but having seen this druid, If someone wanted a wildshape druid instead of the other types, this is where I'd send them. You don't seem to have changed the cleric, just set it up to be readably used with the revised spellcasting. I think the cleric is kindof beefy like the druid. Not as bad as the full-casting Dire Bear with a grizzly animal companion, but still pretty superhero compared to other classes. I think for the cleric it depends on if clerics are always dedicated healers though. If they choose to be healers they are ok balance wise, but if they are evil or go the "I'm a neutral cleric, following the god of war (takes appropriate domains) Why would I need to heal the party! I can be a Battle-God!" then theyre similarly imbalanced. I like the good/evil paladin slant, it makes me consider actually allowing them into my game. One of the things that I really like about this variant, is that it works well with how I've been redesigning a bunch of monsters. If monsters were not HD+LA, but instead Base Race+Racial Levels (where each level is as good as a class level), than I can convert many of the SLAs into caster class progressions, and just give them a custom spell-list, then if they take caster levels, they don't suck! (See the Succubus Wizard/Cleric). I do have a question about these changes now that I understand how they were built a bit better: Could you give me advice on how to deal with updating caster classes to this system, for caster classes that both had access to their entire spell-list, AND spontaneous casting? There are some which are quite useful which my players will want to play. And with those, instead of having them choose spells, they just limited the spell-lists. For those ones, the readied spells system would put a big limit on the number of spells they would have for options in a given encounter. Some of them are quite good in terms of power AND utility, and I wouldnt want to just banhammer the class. I'm assuming you don't want to discuss the specifics of non-OGL classes from what you said above, but answering it for one of these such classes will answer it for all of them, so I'm just asking generically. Thanks again, these changes make alot more sense now (they already seemed like the right Idea, I just couldnt figure out if all the details worked out, but it appears they do). [/QUOTE]
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