[Trailer] World War Z

[Richards]

(P-Zombies are a whole other ball of wax, although I despise the concept of them, too.)

P-Zombies? I'm unfamiliar with this term. Pseudonatural zombies? Plague zombies?

Johnathan

 

[Aaron L]

P-Zombies? I'm unfamiliar with this term. Pseudonatural zombies? Plague zombies?

Johnathan

Philosophical Zombies. A human body which is not sentient, not sapient, and doesn't experience consciousness, but acts like it does, and with no way to tell that it isn't really a person with conscious experience. It's a concept that's gotten kinda popular to discuss in the circles of philosophy and artificial intelligence (and in the philosophy OF artificial intelligence.) It's used by some philosophers in thought experiments to debate whether consciousness is a physical function of the body/brain, or it exists on a separate, metaphysical level. It is used to debate whether it is even logically possible to exist or not. It... can get really esoteric and bizarre.

It's basically just a fancy term for a person who doesn't have a soul, but who you can't in any way DETERMINE doesn't have a soul.

I sometimes imagine panels of Wizards, Clerics, and Psionicists debating the topic. It makes it more fun. The debate would, of course, be based on Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: The Planes, and Knowledge: Religion.

Remember that episode of ST: TNG where they put Data on trial to determine if he had legal rights, or was just a machine and therefore the property of Starfleet? That's pretty much the debate in a nutshell.

I'm of the opinion that it is not logically possible, and is a completely ridiculous and inane concept. But it does have some possible consequences for future developments in artificial intelligence. It's like debating whether or not an artificially intelligent computer with the same discernible level of intelligence as a human (if/when we ever get there) would have rights as a person or not.

The people who argue for the existence of P-Zombies say no, because the computer wouldn't actually have conscious experience on the "metaphysical" level, and therefore wouldn't really be conscious, even though it seemed like it did in every way. I believe that if a computer acted in every way like it was conscious, and there was no possible way to determine that it did not have consciousness, than it IS conscious.

The whole concept is a bizarre mixture of very important/inconsequential/fascinating/frustrating and stupid. Like a lot of philosophy. That's what makes it so fun.

At one point I thought about trying to figure out the Pathfinder stats of a P-Zombie, wondering what effect lacking metaphysical consciousness (or a soul) would have. I remembered the kir-lanan from the Forgotten Realms, which were beings that didn't have souls, and considered making P-Zombies immune to divine magic, or at least having very high resistance. But then I realized that that in itself would be a way to distinguish the P-Zombie, so that idea wouldn't work. Then I wondered if even the gods could determine a P-Zombie, and what implications that might have! And then I considered that maybe I was thinking about the whole thing too much.

I came to the conclusion that, in D20, if there isn't a measurable difference you can define with stats, then there is no difference; just like in real life.

 

[jonesy]

So.. would Kzinti females or the devolved humans from Planet of the Apes be considered p-zombies according to the thought experiment or not? How about the rage victims from 28 Days Later, or WH40K Jokaero?

Edit:
Hang on, the experiment says there would be no way at all to say whether it was sentient or not? None? If I'm understanding it correctly then the classic Jokaero would fit, but none of the others. And in reality, yeah it's loony.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Seems like a Turing test would solve the P-zombie issue fairly readily: If there is no way to determine whether something is sentient or not, but it acts sentient, then for any practical purpose, it IS sentient.