Trained Only

[Aeson]

This may be a hold over from 3.5. Some skills like slight of hand are trained only skills. Does these mean someone can't make a dex check to pick a pocket or obscure some act?

 

[Alzrius]

This may be a hold over from 3.5. Some skills like slight of hand are trained only skills. Does these mean someone can't make a dex check to pick a pocket or obscure some act?

It is a holdover from 3.5, yes. "Trained only" skills require you to have at least 1 rank in them in order to make a check with that skill.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I haven't looked at all of the 'Trained Only' skills, but at least some of them (e.g. Knowledge Skills) can be used untrained if the DC is 10 or less.

 

[Aeson]

What would be the drawback of houseruling that pick pocket or slight of hand can be used untrained? Set the DC higher or have a dex requirment.

 

[Abciximab]

What would be the drawback of houseruling that pick pocket or slight of hand can be used untrained? Set the DC higher or have a dex requirment.

You can use slight of hand for a DC less than 10. ASll they need is one rank in Sleight of Hand to use it as trained. House ruling uses for DC higher than 10 I don't think would be ground breaking. A dextrous character might get lucky.

From PF SRD -
Untrained: An untrained Sleight of Hand check is simply a Dexterity check. Without actual training, you can't succeed on any Sleight of Hand check with a DC higher than 10, except for hiding an object on your body.

 

[Anguish]

It's an elegant rule as written. Sure you might get lucky... pickpocketing a blind eighty year old person in their sleep. As in, when the DC is very, very low. Remember that a d20 roll has a 10.5 average, so what you've got is 50/50 odds of success at DC 10 checks (assuming no Dex modifier). Sounds reasonable. 50/50 to pull off something easy and no chance of pulling off something hard.

Keep in mind how learning curves tend to work. A professional pickpocket could teach you a lot of important tips in a couple hours. Things like selecting a reasonable target out of a crowd. Getting truly good at it takes time, but some basic training can make the difference between improvising and doing something intelligently but without much experience.

 

[delericho]

I'm another person who doesn't really care for "Trained Only" skill usage - I would rather difficult tasks instead be modelled with a higher DC. My reasoning is that characters only get a very small number of skill ranks, and only infrequently. As such, even having a single skill rank must surely represent some fairly in-depth training; it's not really a matter of "I'll quickly show you the ropes".

That said, I won't be house ruling it in my games. As it stands, I think several of the skill DCs are too low to allow that to be done globally without consequence.