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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DM-Rocco" data-source="post: 1545064" data-attributes="member: 14451">From the PlayerHello all,   It seems as if this has been a dead topic for a bit, however, I am the player for whom mafisto is referring and I would like to state a point or two, I can't help it, I like to debate.  I am his DM in another game, he is mine in this.   It is a long drawn out series of e-mails stating my points on why you should be able to train a light horse into a light warhorse, however, I have conceeded that, for purposes of my DM's world where any creature you can control in battle is powerful, I really don't need the extra +2 to STR, CON, and +1 on WIS that is the difference between a light horse and its war counterpart.   Sure it would be nice, but ultimately, especially after reading his statements above, I am just happy having my very own horse that I can ride into combat on and call my own.   I will bring up a point of fact however, and I would like some honest feed back on this, perhaps it will influence my DM.        The only point I was trying to get across to the DM that really mattered, which he did not state above, was the attack rate of the horse.   The point is the attack penalty is different for a war horse and a regular horse.   It is not part of breeding but a limitation on not being trained to fight. I am not even talking about the extra attack a war horse gets with his bite but how his attack are percieved.   The attack trick trains an animal to attack creatures.  A non war horse gets a -5 penalty to hit because it is treating hooves as a secondary attack and adds only half STR to damage.  Why does it consider its hooves as secondary attacks, because, as stated in the MMI a regular horse will actively aviod combat since it is not trained for it.     If you are training a horse to attack, regardless if it is a war horse or not a war horse, then you train it to attack with everything it has, thus making that creature, in this case the light horse,  deadly with his hooves and teeth, as is referred to in the attack for a war horse, even though it is not a war horse.     They should therefor be referred to as primary weapons, getting full STR bonus, which would only be an other +1, and more importantly they should eliminate the -5 penalty for fighting with a secondary weapon.     Both the light war horse and the light horse have the same hit dice, so they should have the same attack bonus.  I will concede that the physical differences between the horses can be attributed to breeding, although I still think you can train a horse to be stronger and faster, but that aside, I think if you go through the time and effort to train a horse to fight in combat you are going to train them to use everything they have for weapons and then they would be considered primary weapons.    Also, I thought I read somewhere that a mount trained for combat riding  can make an attack as well as the player.  Can someone confirm or deny.   Oh, Ridley's Cohort, not only is the campiagn low magic, but also low money.  We are average of 3rd level and only have about 500 gold in gear, no worries about abusing the handle animal skill there and never fear, he is very adamant about not making regular Warhorses even for sale, hence why I took 6 ranks in Handle Animal.</blockquote>

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