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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Meatboy" data-source="post: 6017830" data-attributes="member: 40857">Perhaps there is a problem with what people think of when the word epic comes up. On further reflection I think there are two main types of epic that appear in regards to gaming. The first is epic as it relates to the scope scope of the adventure or campaign and the second is epic as it relates to personal power or ability. The Lord of the Rings is a great example of the first type of epic. A small band of heroes rally the races of light for  last ditch effort to fight and eventually defeat a demonic entity bent on remaking reality in its own image. That story is very epic in terms of scope but very few of the characters do anything outside of human capability. Contrast that to say Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Which is a very personal story revolving around duty, personal honour, revenge and unrequited love. The fate of the world doesn't hang in the balance here yet we get people dancing on the top of trees, flying over roofs, shattering walls and tons of other stuff that defy realistic expectations. There are only a few instances of 'magic', mostly in the form of some enchanted weapons. The characters in the film can do what they do because they are great warriors and possess knowledge of secret techniques. DnD at any level can tell the first type of story. You don't need a good set of mechanics to have an epic adventure. It's the second one where the martial classes need more.  Casters, especially wizards and clerics, end up being very powerful generalist classes. They will have an answer for almost any situation, especially if given enough time to prepare.  Fighters et al. by design end up being super specialized, usually becuase it's "realistic". They will have to spend resources getting good at one style of fighting or one weapon or what have you. Unfortunately at level 20 that makes them completely beholden to the DM because at that point they have to sit around hoping that  the DM put something in the adventure for them to do. A DM can't just say "here's a problem. Solve it." They have to explicitly cater to each character's niche power or they can't do anything. If the Rogue spent 20 levels worth of skill points on opening locks there damn well better be a lock that only they can open...  This sort of siloing has only gotten worse due to the proliferation of classes, prestige classes, paragon paths and any other thing that makes you only good at one thing. Without each class having a good SET of tools to draw from they can't really initiate anything in game they can merely react. That is what makes casters so powerful is that by level 20 the have a lot of control over how the game turns out. Martial classes need that too.</blockquote>

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