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<blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 8385620" data-attributes="member: 6775477"><p>
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<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Example 1: Why does no one want to be the one to initiate? Is there a possible non-combat resolution? Insight would be a good check that would let people know the situation and potentially find a non-combat option (or try to get the jump on the enemy).</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Example 2: Not sure how this is a combat related situation, but I'd add a sleight of hand check to do it quietly (usually by pouring oil into the lock, which would be part of a normal thieves' tools). If failed, the lock opens, but the other party is alerted, preventing surprise once the door opens. Otherwise, the assassin can make a stealth check to surprise the target when they open the door.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Example 3: Watching the door would prevent surprise, as you'd see the door open and the assassin couldn't stealth (you can't hide from someone who can see you).</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Example 4: My group has done this often. Assuming they can see each other, someone counts with their fingers, with everyone going on &quot;3.&quot; This lead to a hilarious situation where half of us rolled so badly for stealth that we decided that we all yelled &quot;THREE&quot; at the same time, which is how we ruined surprise.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Example 5: This one is very tricky, and depends on the playstyle of the DM. I'm more likely to do this out of combat, but I'll focus on a combat method (since that's your goal). I'd setup the scene, then have the rogue roll deception against the guard's insight (to realize they're a threat). Success starts the combat with the rouge next to teh politician and everyone else surprised, and the rogue considered &quot;hidden.&quot; Once they attack, the rogue is no longer hidden, and must deal with combat as normal. Once they can get to a spot they can attempt to hide, they can do so, and if they remain hidden for at least 1 full round I'd go out of combat. While the guards may not know where the rogue is, they know where they went, so the rogue had best move far away first.</li>
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[QUOTE="Shiroiken, post: 8385620, member: 6775477"] [LIST] [*]Example 1: Why does no one want to be the one to initiate? Is there a possible non-combat resolution? Insight would be a good check that would let people know the situation and potentially find a non-combat option (or try to get the jump on the enemy). [*]Example 2: Not sure how this is a combat related situation, but I'd add a sleight of hand check to do it quietly (usually by pouring oil into the lock, which would be part of a normal thieves' tools). If failed, the lock opens, but the other party is alerted, preventing surprise once the door opens. Otherwise, the assassin can make a stealth check to surprise the target when they open the door. [*]Example 3: Watching the door would prevent surprise, as you'd see the door open and the assassin couldn't stealth (you can't hide from someone who can see you). [*]Example 4: My group has done this often. Assuming they can see each other, someone counts with their fingers, with everyone going on "3." This lead to a hilarious situation where half of us rolled so badly for stealth that we decided that we all yelled "THREE" at the same time, which is how we ruined surprise. [*]Example 5: This one is very tricky, and depends on the playstyle of the DM. I'm more likely to do this out of combat, but I'll focus on a combat method (since that's your goal). I'd setup the scene, then have the rogue roll deception against the guard's insight (to realize they're a threat). Success starts the combat with the rouge next to teh politician and everyone else surprised, and the rogue considered "hidden." Once they attack, the rogue is no longer hidden, and must deal with combat as normal. Once they can get to a spot they can attempt to hide, they can do so, and if they remain hidden for at least 1 full round I'd go out of combat. While the guards may not know where the rogue is, they know where they went, so the rogue had best move far away first. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

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