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<blockquote data-quote="DNH" data-source="post: 4970251" data-attributes="member: 63615">A conclusionLots of good stuff/advice on here - thanks to everyone.&nbsp; I have long been a passive member of ENWorld forums, a &quot;grazer&quot;; I really ought to change that.I have taken on board a lot of the stuff I have read on this thread and spoken with my players again and we have reached the following conclusions ...<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">My players *do* want to be told that a Skill Challenge is commencing.&nbsp; Fair enough, then I shall do so.&nbsp; As I said to them, I realise I am not the only person at the (virtual) table.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">My players have been asked (told) NOT to make any skill check rolls until it is agreed that they need to.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">If I see any skill check rolls that were not called for, I will be taking that skill check as a group check.&nbsp; The overall result will be given to the majority result (or the original roll, in the event of a tie).</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Aid Another is being house-ruled.&nbsp; Firstly, the DC for it will be the same as the main protagonist's DC, less 5 points.&nbsp; Secondly, a failed Aid Another check will apply a -2 penalty to the main protagonist's roll (the idea being that a character making a low roll doesn't just &quot;not know&quot; but actually &quot;knows the wrong thing&quot; and confuses the issue).</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">I will undertake to give useful feedback for every skill check, such that they should be able to understand, without it being made explicit, whether their skill check was a success or a failure.&nbsp; Further feedback at the end of the Skill Challenge will show what the overall result was.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Finally, I have made it clear that I will *not* be divulging the likes of Complexity or the current numbers of successes/failures or the DCs for any skill checks.</li>
</ol>Put down here in bullet points, it all looks a bit like I am laying down the law (and I suppose I am to a certain extent) but this has all been agreed with the players.&nbsp; It turns out the chief complaint was the first one, that they didn't realise they were in a Skill Challenge.&nbsp; If we resolve that, it seems (and we have, because I will be telling them as much each time), all the other issues resolve themselves, or at least partly.It's the best solution in the sense that Skill Challenges will at least now work, but I will say that it's not the best solution for me.&nbsp; I had wanted to be able to run Skill Challenges without breaking the fourth wall, as it were, but I suppose you can't have everything.&nbsp; In the end, saying &quot;This is a Skill Challenge&quot; is not really any different to saying &quot;Roll of initiative&quot; (Or &quot;Snish!&quot; as we say in our group!).Thanks again to everyone who posted.&nbsp; I'll be back with more of my niggling issues ... like Surprise.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DNH, post: 4970251, member: 63615"] [b]A conclusion[/b] Lots of good stuff/advice on here - thanks to everyone. I have long been a passive member of ENWorld forums, a "grazer"; I really ought to change that. I have taken on board a lot of the stuff I have read on this thread and spoken with my players again and we have reached the following conclusions ... [LIST=1][*]My players *do* want to be told that a Skill Challenge is commencing. Fair enough, then I shall do so. As I said to them, I realise I am not the only person at the (virtual) table.[*]My players have been asked (told) NOT to make any skill check rolls until it is agreed that they need to.[*]If I see any skill check rolls that were not called for, I will be taking that skill check as a group check. The overall result will be given to the majority result (or the original roll, in the event of a tie).[*]Aid Another is being house-ruled. Firstly, the DC for it will be the same as the main protagonist's DC, less 5 points. Secondly, a failed Aid Another check will apply a -2 penalty to the main protagonist's roll (the idea being that a character making a low roll doesn't just "not know" but actually "knows the wrong thing" and confuses the issue).[*]I will undertake to give useful feedback for every skill check, such that they should be able to understand, without it being made explicit, whether their skill check was a success or a failure. Further feedback at the end of the Skill Challenge will show what the overall result was.[*]Finally, I have made it clear that I will *not* be divulging the likes of Complexity or the current numbers of successes/failures or the DCs for any skill checks.[/LIST] Put down here in bullet points, it all looks a bit like I am laying down the law (and I suppose I am to a certain extent) but this has all been agreed with the players. It turns out the chief complaint was the first one, that they didn't realise they were in a Skill Challenge. If we resolve that, it seems (and we have, because I will be telling them as much each time), all the other issues resolve themselves, or at least partly. It's the best solution in the sense that Skill Challenges will at least now work, but I will say that it's not the best solution for me. I had wanted to be able to run Skill Challenges without breaking the fourth wall, as it were, but I suppose you can't have everything. In the end, saying "This is a Skill Challenge" is not really any different to saying "Roll of initiative" (Or "Snish!" as we say in our group!). Thanks again to everyone who posted. I'll be back with more of my niggling issues ... like Surprise. [/QUOTE]

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