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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 6675188" data-attributes="member: 9789">Polymorph isn't too far out of the question, but it only lasts an hour.&nbsp; I guess you could polymorph them into something particularly bad at wisdom saves and then charm them?&nbsp; Still, the main issue is the length of the spell time.&nbsp; It's also putting a decent amount of resources (getting a 4th level spell) on something that comes down to a single save, which makes it especially risky.Fair point!&nbsp; Also more within the power level of the party, as a 2nd level and 3rd level spell.&nbsp; For in-game reasons they will likely be very reticent to actually kill the thing, but this is totally a fair solution.As much fun as it can be to derail one's entire campaign, I'm probably looking for another solution.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; (Btw a young red in 5.0 has a Cha of 19!)&nbsp; And the dragon is white, which makes the &quot;bluff it with major illusion&quot; idea still one of the better ones, as they are quite stupid.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 6675188, member: 9789"] Polymorph isn't too far out of the question, but it only lasts an hour. I guess you could polymorph them into something particularly bad at wisdom saves and then charm them? Still, the main issue is the length of the spell time. It's also putting a decent amount of resources (getting a 4th level spell) on something that comes down to a single save, which makes it especially risky. Fair point! Also more within the power level of the party, as a 2nd level and 3rd level spell. For in-game reasons they will likely be very reticent to actually kill the thing, but this is totally a fair solution. As much fun as it can be to derail one's entire campaign, I'm probably looking for another solution. :) (Btw a young red in 5.0 has a Cha of 19!) And the dragon is white, which makes the "bluff it with major illusion" idea still one of the better ones, as they are quite stupid. [/QUOTE]

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