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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 6675831" data-attributes="member: 9789">The 6th spell level Flesh to Stone is the lowest I could find - also it lasts 1 minute.&nbsp; Prismatic spray could also do it, but it's super random to say the least.Maybe if you hired a cadre of 3rd level enchanters...It has a terrible Wis save (+0) but getting a 5th level scroll would be hard enough, and that only lasts 8 hrs.&nbsp; Still, it could help make the creature fail additional, other saves - or skill checks, like a bluff check?&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Ha, nice perspective!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; I worry they may just find it frustrating, though...Yeah, this is probably the best type of solution - &quot;just make something up!&quot;&nbsp; But that works better from the GM's side than the player's side.&nbsp; Still, that's a great idea, and I will likely try to have something like this ready for them if it's not turning out to be fun.One thing that this exercise has taught me is just how much less powerful in a game-breaking way 5.0 spells are!&nbsp; I mean, anyone who has played around with concentration KNOWS that spells are nothing like they used to be - that is a HUGE limiter.&nbsp; But unlike 3.5, you really can't do many permanent effects anymore - at least not until 7th+ level spells - which is really interesting.&nbsp; I mean I knew they weren't quite the same, but exploring them in a more practical way really shows just how much less game-breaking they are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 6675831, member: 9789"] The 6th spell level Flesh to Stone is the lowest I could find - also it lasts 1 minute. Prismatic spray could also do it, but it's super random to say the least. Maybe if you hired a cadre of 3rd level enchanters... It has a terrible Wis save (+0) but getting a 5th level scroll would be hard enough, and that only lasts 8 hrs. Still, it could help make the creature fail additional, other saves - or skill checks, like a bluff check? :) Ha, nice perspective! :) I worry they may just find it frustrating, though... Yeah, this is probably the best type of solution - "just make something up!" But that works better from the GM's side than the player's side. Still, that's a great idea, and I will likely try to have something like this ready for them if it's not turning out to be fun. One thing that this exercise has taught me is just how much less powerful in a game-breaking way 5.0 spells are! I mean, anyone who has played around with concentration KNOWS that spells are nothing like they used to be - that is a HUGE limiter. But unlike 3.5, you really can't do many permanent effects anymore - at least not until 7th+ level spells - which is really interesting. I mean I knew they weren't quite the same, but exploring them in a more practical way really shows just how much less game-breaking they are. [/QUOTE]

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