Transposing Lunge / Generating a miss with interrupts

[Patlin]

A shielding swordmage can use this power as part of an Aegis of Shielding immediate interrupt. Aegis of Shielding normally reduces the damage done by an attack, and transposing lunge could in theory move an attacker well out of attack range of the target. If that happens, does the swordmage cause the attack to miss, preventing all damage and not just the amount specified by Aegis of Shielding?

One of the reasons I ask is that at least one similar swordmage power says this specifically. I'm not sure if that means it's a special feature of that power, or if they are restating the general rule. I would hope if it's a restatement, it would be restated consistently, but I have some doubts.

 

[-Avalon-]

Yes the ability is an immediate interrupt, but it interrupts the damage dealing part of the attack, the attack HAS hit. But, the interrupt only reduces damage, does not stop the attack outright.

So, what happens is:
1- Mob swings
2- Player is hit
3- Damage is rolled
4- Interrupt reduces the damage
5- Teleports the mob to the swordmage (if I remember the ability well)

 

[Xris Robin]

I believe that's wrong. An Interrupt can negate an attack, if it does something that would invalidate the attack. It's an Reaction that can't negate attacks.

So, what happens is:
1- Mob rolls for hit
2- Player is hit
3- Interrupt teleports the mob to the swordmage
3- Mod is out of melee range of original target
4- Attack is invalid, cannot be made from out of range. Attack didn't happen, no damage is rolled.

 

[Patlin]

I'm having trouble distinguishing the effects of transposing lunge (which per avalon doesn't generate a miss) with sudden escape (which better, as that's what it seems to be for) and dimensional dodge (which just plain confuses me.)

 

[Joshua Randall]

I'm no rules guru, but I think -Avalon- had it right.

If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls. If that attack hits and the marked target is within 10 squares of you, you can use an immediate interrupt to reduce the damage dealt by that attack to any one creature by an amount equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier.

So, what happens with Aegis of Shielding normally?

1. swordmage marks a monster
2. monster makes an attack not including swordmage --> monster takes -2 attack
3. monster's attack hits someone else --> Aegis of Shielding is triggered, reducing damage

Now, Transposing Lunge:

Attack: Intelligence vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Intelligence modifier damage, and you teleport the target into a space adjacent to you.
Aegis of Shielding: When you use your aegis of shielding immediate interrupt, you can use this power against the target as part of the interrupt, even if the target is beyond your reach.

So now the sequence is:

1. swordmage marks a monster
2. monster makes an attack not including swordmage --> monster takes -2 attack
3. monster's attack hits someone else --> Aegis of Shielding is triggered, reducing damage and also allowing a Transposing Lunge attack against the monster

The "even if the target is beyond your reach" part comes into play because Aegis of Shielding just says you need to be within 10 squares of the marked monster. Transposing Lunge is a Melee weapon attack, so normally you could only use it against targets within your melee reach. But it specifically says you can use it "even if the target is beyond your reach" (assuming you have Aegis of Shielding).

The setup might look something like the following:

..M..
..A..
.....
.....
...S.

M = monster
A = swordmage's ally
S = swordmage

The swordmage uses Aegis of Shielding on the monster. The monster attacks the ally and hits, triggering Aegis of Shielding's damage-reducing effect. Normally, the Swordmage cannot reach the monster to attack with Transposing Lunge, but the power overrides this (specific rule > general rule) and allows Transposing Lunge to work. End result, damage is reduced and (if Transposing Lunge hits) the monster is teleported to a square adjacent to the swordmage.

= = =

As for Sudden Escape, the difference is that it (can) make the attack that hit you irrelevant. i.e. if a monster attacks and hits you with a melee attack, but you use Sudden Escape to teleport 2 squares away, then the attack could not have hit you (you're no longer within reach) so you are not hit and you take no damage.

If you were stupid, you could do something like attempt to Sudden Esacpe a ranged burst 5 centered on you. Sure, your Sudden Escape goes off and you teleport 2 squares, but you're still within the area of the burst so you still are hit and take damage.

= = =

Dimensional Dodge confuses me too. The flavor text implies that the intent of it is that if someone shoots at you, you use Dimensional Dodge to cause that shot to miss and teleport next to the shooter. But the way it is worded, I think the shot still hits you (but you do teleport next to them). So it's more of an after-the-fact deterrant than a way to avoid being hit.

 

[Xris Robin]

Dimensional Dodge is wacky. I think it doesn't negate the attack (no matter the flavor) because moving doesn't negate a ranged attack. I teleport adjacent, but they can still attack me. Or... maybe not, since you might assume they can't change targets after starting.

And I still think Transposing Lunge negates. It specifically says

you can use this power against the target as part of the interrupt

and the RAW for interrupts says

If an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost

Transposing Lunge uses a teleport as part of the interrupt so if that teleport is from say, a melee attack, it invalidates the triggering action, and that action is lost.

EDIT: Sorry, I mean Transposing Lunge does this when you use it with Aegis of Shielding, obviously, not normally.