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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4684697" data-attributes="member: 35909">What if you think those spells are distasteful and don't want even more of that crap in your games?Given that rogues are one of the most popular and powerful (and versatile) classes, I don't see that losing the uniqueness of trapfinding is a big deal.</blockquote>Popular, yes.  Powerful? *laughs*  Contrary to what you may think, popular and powerful are not necessarily related at all.  For reference, see bard love and "I'm not playing the healbot."You're not just spending a feat to duplicate the rogue's trapfinding-you're spending a feat and a ton of skill points (and possibly items and so on), and yuo're doing so with a class that was not balanced to have to max two skills just to find traps and secret doors.[/QUOTE]What?  The Rogue's spending those same skill points.  You pay a feat to get the Trapfinding ability Rogues get as a class feature (much like you pay a feat to get the Ranger's Track feature), and you now have the "privilege" to pay an obscene amount of skill points to use it and put yourself in harm's way while the party waits in a safe area nearby.  ...Just like the Rogue!  Oh, but rogues get all those skill points so it's less painful, you say*?  Ok then.  Most other classes will be getting higher HD and fort saves to survive traps, so clearly if you're bundling class skills into this trapfinding feat, Rogues should be getting bonus hp and saves, correct?Do you plan to bundle Survival as a class skill into Track?  Or...just let it be and leave things as is so the people who pick another class with it as a skill or take the extra effort to make it a class skill pick it up?  Cause I'd really be amused by your RL experiences of players w/ no access to Survival as a class skill taking Track as a feat and then getting all upset like they were hoodwinked.*Side-rant: Sick of this argument.  Rogues are expected to handle a lot of skills, they are just as skill starved as any other class, sometimes more-so.  I guess a side-side-tangent, just to be fair: barbarian's d12 isn't as huge a boon as it first seems by the same token.  The weaker armor proficiencies and tendency of the main class feature to further reduce AC means the higher HD is at best making up for the other deficiencies.[/QUOTE]

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