Trapfinding: bleargh!

[Christian]

Hadn't really seen this as a big deal before, but it's starting to bug me.

Character A: 10th level elven rogue, Int 14, maxed Search.
Character B: 10th level elven ranger, Int 14, maxed Search.

Both characters have Search +17. So:

Secret Door, search DC 20: Character A and Character B have a 90% chance to find it.
Trap, Search DC 20: Character A and Character B have a 90% chance to find it.
Secret Door, search DC 21: Character A and Character B have an 85% chance to find it.
Trap, Search DC 21: Character A has an 85% chance to find it. Character B has a 0% chance to find it.



It makes sense that Rogues would be better at finding traps. (It's a reasonable class ability, at any rate.) But this is just weird ... One thought that popped into my head: Give rogues a bonus to Search vs. trap DC's equal to half their level, and up the DC's for standard traps with a DC over 20 by one per point over 20. (DC 21 -> 22, DC 22 -> 24, DC 25 -> 30, etc.) Now, the two character's chances on that DC 20 trap are 100% and 90%, and for the DC 21 (revised to 22) they're 80% and 100%. (DC 21 traps are good for 1st level rogues to try to find, pointless to throw them at 10th level groups, unless they don't have a rogue ...) An old-style DC 25 trap would now be DC 30; the rogue would have a 65% chance of finding it, same as before, while the ranger would still have a 40% chance. And an old-style DC 30 trap goes from a 40% chance to a 15% chance at DC 40 for the rogue; it's still out of reach for the ranger, but he could eventually learn to have a shot at that at higher levels.

Thoughts? Alternatives? Am I whining about nothing?

 

[LeifVignirsson]

Well, from what I see here, there is a bit more description that needs to be added. Rogue and Ranger are even when it comes to trap finding, but in different settings (or at least from what we play them as IMC). Rogues finds traps overall, Rangers find traps in the woods. If you want to add a DC mod to the Ranger because it is out of the wilderness, then that is applicable. If the trap is out in the wild, then you might want to add that mod to the Rogues DC. Hell, my Enchanter found a trap that was at a DC 30 with a lucky roll.

Also, FINDING a trap is not the same as DISARMING said trap. Hands down, Rogue has the advantage. I think that is up to you to decide what to do, I know this post wasn't too helpful in that

PS: You spelled Bleagh wrong... Remember, it is BLLEEEAAAGGH!!

 

[Christian]

Hell, my Enchanter found a trap that was at a DC 30 with a lucky roll.

Well, that's evidently impossible under the current rules ...

Also, FINDING a trap is not the same as DISARMING said trap. Hands down, Rogue has the advantage.

Oh, absolutely. And I'd probably leave the ability to find and disarm magical traps as a Rogue ability. Still, if a Ranger can't disarm a trap, he can lead the group away from or around it, or at least take appropriate precautions. ("Whoever opens this door will be blasted by a few gallons of alchemist's fire. So, Jozan, got that Protection From Elements spell prepared?")

PS: You spelled Bleagh wrong... Remember, it is BLLEEEAAAGGH!!

Blast! I knew I should have looked that up in the dictionary!

 

[Old Gumphrey]

I've cut this problem out of my games completely using a variant I cooked up with a friend. Quite a big change, but everyone's more than happy about it overall. First, the rogue loses the Trapfinding ability completely. I'll pause while everyone's heart restarts. Next, all classes can search for traps. That's right. All of 'em. Cleric spell Find Traps was removed, although on further thought it could stay in and simply grant a scaling bonus on Search checks. Next, the rogue gets a bonus feat at levels 1, 4, 7, and 10. This feat must be a "skill" feat, either Skill Focus, or one of the +2/+2 feats from the 3.5 PHB.

So we've done the following in one fell swoop:

• 
  Kept rogues as the best potential trapfinders/disablers in the game.

• 
  Prevented rogues from being vital to all dungeon-based parties, but given them major skill boosts to stay useful in any group regardless of the number of traps present.

• 
  Replaced the rogues' advantage of being the only trapfinders with being the undisputed kings of skills.

• 
  Allow anyone with eyes and a great search skill to find traps.

It's done wonders for the game so far.

 

[ARandomGod]

I've cut this problem out of my games completely using a variant I cooked up with a friend. Quite a big change, but everyone's more than happy about it overall. First, the rogue loses the Trapfinding ability completely. I'll pause while everyone's heart restarts. Next, all classes can search for traps. That's right. All of 'em. Cleric spell Find Traps was removed, although on further thought it could stay in and simply grant a scaling bonus on Search checks. Next, the rogue gets a bonus feat at levels 1, 4, 7, and 10. This feat must be a "skill" feat, either Skill Focus, or one of the +2/+2 feats from the 3.5 PHB.

So we've done the following in one fell swoop:

• 
  Kept rogues as the best potential trapfinders/disablers in the game.

• 
  Prevented rogues from being vital to all dungeon-based parties, but given them major skill boosts to stay useful in any group regardless of the number of traps present.

• 
  Replaced the rogues' advantage of being the only trapfinders with being the undisputed kings of skills.

• 
  Allow anyone with eyes and a great search skill to find traps.

It's done wonders for the game so far.

I like that a lot. I've always hated the idea that noone but the rogue can find many traps. I especially hate it when presented with a magic item that grants, say, +10 to search... but you still can't find that trap. If you wanted a magic item to replace that ability, you have to arbitrarily price the "trapfinding" ability of a rogue.

Or have the "Gloves of Master Thievery" really be useable only by rogues. Which is a find price discount on the item, but would kind of suck for a higher level campaign trying to buy an item to (even temporarily) replace the rogue who's home sick... er, who stayed at the inn due to the flux.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

I should probably point out that this new rule allows anyone with Disable Device to take traps apart and even disarm magical traps, in case it wasn't clear. Taking away Trapfinding without allowing characters to do this would put PC's in a bit of a pickle.