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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9096256" data-attributes="member: 6684958"><p>Just pointing out how players hostility towards the DM effects things.</p><p></p><p>Again, this only teaches the Hostile Players. Once the DM "attacks them personally" with a trap in the game, they will react by being openly hostile. The hostile player feels justified showing their hate as "the DM started it." </p><p></p><p>It is not rational at all to think "humm, the door to that BANK VAULT was trapped.......THAT means EVERY door is trapped!". Only an irrational person would think that. </p><p></p><p>Not sure why history matters when your talking about dragons, unicorns, magic, fantasy and fiction. That real world tomb might of had no traps....but it also did not have a magic sword.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you can't say "all" players are one thing. And sure some players pay attention...but some do not. And some players never learn anything.</p><p></p><p>The problem your stuck on here is the One Way problem, that you often get in a simple casual game. If the players just do senseless random actions like "show mercy" it might very well come back to haunt them. You agree this is true, but will quick add it must be rare.....and even more quickly add that as a fan of the players/characters you want to "teach" them that...er...when they make a random choice it will always work out for the best because you will alter the game reality to make it so. It's the kind of "lesson" they teach in "educational" cartoons for kids. The good guys capture the bad guy and show mercy: the bad guy then turns over a new leaf and becomes a good person. Everyone lives happily ever after. It works great for cartoons.</p><p></p><p>I play the Sumiluation Game: that is to say it's "kinda of" like reality. So if a person who is shown mercy might come back and attack or such is based on the person. Some will never change. Some might change a bit, but will need lots of help. Some need lots of help and guidance. Some can really only do it with magical help. Some might 'just change' too. But you can't just show random mercy to a random NPC and just expect them to transform into a saint in seconds. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except this is the Simple Casual way of looking at it.</p><p></p><p>The player has their character always throw their long sword at foes: it does not work out so well. So after throwing the sword dozens of times, the player just has the character give up swords and only punch to attack. Rational?</p><p></p><p>The player has their character shoot fireballs to attack, but when fighting the fire elementals the fireballs do no damage. So this player stops using the fireball spell at all ever. Rational?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this is only for the Simple Casual game. In the Simple Casual game, a player can have their NPC just go shopping anywhere and they will have a fair, honest, nice time at the store and be able to buy anything they want.</p><p></p><p>In the simulation game...well, it depends on where you go...and how your character acts...and what the character does...and all sorts of things like that. Each NPC is an individual, and might act in many ways. Though, by default, many NPCs are greedy, if not out right evil. For example, meeting a demon in a dark alley is no the "best" place to go shopping. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is true for some DMs.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure I never said that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9096256, member: 6684958"] Just pointing out how players hostility towards the DM effects things. Again, this only teaches the Hostile Players. Once the DM "attacks them personally" with a trap in the game, they will react by being openly hostile. The hostile player feels justified showing their hate as "the DM started it." It is not rational at all to think "humm, the door to that BANK VAULT was trapped.......THAT means EVERY door is trapped!". Only an irrational person would think that. Not sure why history matters when your talking about dragons, unicorns, magic, fantasy and fiction. That real world tomb might of had no traps....but it also did not have a magic sword. Well, you can't say "all" players are one thing. And sure some players pay attention...but some do not. And some players never learn anything. The problem your stuck on here is the One Way problem, that you often get in a simple casual game. If the players just do senseless random actions like "show mercy" it might very well come back to haunt them. You agree this is true, but will quick add it must be rare.....and even more quickly add that as a fan of the players/characters you want to "teach" them that...er...when they make a random choice it will always work out for the best because you will alter the game reality to make it so. It's the kind of "lesson" they teach in "educational" cartoons for kids. The good guys capture the bad guy and show mercy: the bad guy then turns over a new leaf and becomes a good person. Everyone lives happily ever after. It works great for cartoons. I play the Sumiluation Game: that is to say it's "kinda of" like reality. So if a person who is shown mercy might come back and attack or such is based on the person. Some will never change. Some might change a bit, but will need lots of help. Some need lots of help and guidance. Some can really only do it with magical help. Some might 'just change' too. But you can't just show random mercy to a random NPC and just expect them to transform into a saint in seconds. Except this is the Simple Casual way of looking at it. The player has their character always throw their long sword at foes: it does not work out so well. So after throwing the sword dozens of times, the player just has the character give up swords and only punch to attack. Rational? The player has their character shoot fireballs to attack, but when fighting the fire elementals the fireballs do no damage. So this player stops using the fireball spell at all ever. Rational? Again, this is only for the Simple Casual game. In the Simple Casual game, a player can have their NPC just go shopping anywhere and they will have a fair, honest, nice time at the store and be able to buy anything they want. In the simulation game...well, it depends on where you go...and how your character acts...and what the character does...and all sorts of things like that. Each NPC is an individual, and might act in many ways. Though, by default, many NPCs are greedy, if not out right evil. For example, meeting a demon in a dark alley is no the "best" place to go shopping. This is true for some DMs. I'm sure I never said that. [/QUOTE]
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