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<blockquote data-quote="slaughterj" data-source="post: 6750678" data-attributes="member: 5341">So when are you using passive Perception at all in the game, if not for ambushes?And how are you determining the DC of the ambush?&nbsp; Are all 4 Orcs rolling separately?&nbsp; (That's doomed to fail, someone will roll low.)There appear to be three options, to have a contest if PCs are being ambushed, either:1.&nbsp; Rely on PCs' passive Perception, and have 1 or more Stealth rolls by the hidden foes (too many rolls is a problem as someone would invariably roll low and thus never succeed, unless you use a system like an extended multiple checks challenge, and just take the top half).2.&nbsp; Set a static DC (how though?), and have the PCs roll an active Perception check (very hard to surprise the whole party though, as someone is bound to roll high).3.&nbsp; Have the ambushers and the PCs each roll (a real mess and no chance to hide if all are rolling outright, someone will roll low to hide, so again use some sort of alternative like a single die and each apply their Perception to it or extended group check challenges).Offhand, without looking, I don't recall which is RAW, but I prefer #1 for simplicity, the possibility that all could be surprised (ambushers could get modifiers favorable for location chosen or time taken, unfavorable for large numbers, etc.), but without making hiding impossible (the result if there are too many rolls involved).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="slaughterj, post: 6750678, member: 5341"] So when are you using passive Perception at all in the game, if not for ambushes? And how are you determining the DC of the ambush? Are all 4 Orcs rolling separately? (That's doomed to fail, someone will roll low.) There appear to be three options, to have a contest if PCs are being ambushed, either: 1. Rely on PCs' passive Perception, and have 1 or more Stealth rolls by the hidden foes (too many rolls is a problem as someone would invariably roll low and thus never succeed, unless you use a system like an extended multiple checks challenge, and just take the top half). 2. Set a static DC (how though?), and have the PCs roll an active Perception check (very hard to surprise the whole party though, as someone is bound to roll high). 3. Have the ambushers and the PCs each roll (a real mess and no chance to hide if all are rolling outright, someone will roll low to hide, so again use some sort of alternative like a single die and each apply their Perception to it or extended group check challenges). Offhand, without looking, I don't recall which is RAW, but I prefer #1 for simplicity, the possibility that all could be surprised (ambushers could get modifiers favorable for location chosen or time taken, unfavorable for large numbers, etc.), but without making hiding impossible (the result if there are too many rolls involved). [/QUOTE]

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