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<blockquote data-quote="painandgreed" data-source="post: 2476783" data-attributes="member: 24969"><p>I would dispute that and even if it stated it someplace, I'd just consider it another stupid thing that I'd have to change my house rules to note. Assuming that you could take 20 while searching for traps would map most traps findable even by a 1st level rogue. A 1st level dwarf rogue with a 14 Int, investigator feat, and 4 ranks in Search would find CR10 traps automatically in your typical dungeon setting.&nbsp; Sorry, I have more respect for a CR 10 trap than assume that it is to be automatically found by a 1st level character moderatly geared to doing so. Your 1st level fighter isn't going to be able to take on a CR 10 monster. While it states that &quot;you generally must be within 10 feet&quot; to search, I would not always allow a take 20 in all such circumstances or Search merely becomes Spot. Taking 20 while searching the couch for your keys involves not only looking it over but also pulling up the cushions and reaching your hands down into the unseen parts. I also often rule that most take 20 actions are not capable in two minutes. That would especially count for search. You can't search something with a take 20 in two minutes when it would take you longer than two minutes to unpack a container without paying attention to what was in it or rearrange the itmes in a room just so you could see them all. Players walk over their DMs way to much on this one convincing them of all the crap they can do in a really short amounts of time.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="painandgreed, post: 2476783, member: 24969"] I would dispute that and even if it stated it someplace, I'd just consider it another stupid thing that I'd have to change my house rules to note. Assuming that you could take 20 while searching for traps would map most traps findable even by a 1st level rogue. A 1st level dwarf rogue with a 14 Int, investigator feat, and 4 ranks in Search would find CR10 traps automatically in your typical dungeon setting. Sorry, I have more respect for a CR 10 trap than assume that it is to be automatically found by a 1st level character moderatly geared to doing so. Your 1st level fighter isn't going to be able to take on a CR 10 monster. While it states that "you generally must be within 10 feet" to search, I would not always allow a take 20 in all such circumstances or Search merely becomes Spot. Taking 20 while searching the couch for your keys involves not only looking it over but also pulling up the cushions and reaching your hands down into the unseen parts. I also often rule that most take 20 actions are not capable in two minutes. That would especially count for search. You can't search something with a take 20 in two minutes when it would take you longer than two minutes to unpack a container without paying attention to what was in it or rearrange the itmes in a room just so you could see them all. Players walk over their DMs way to much on this one convincing them of all the crap they can do in a really short amounts of time. [/QUOTE]

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