Traps and the Clock

[roguerouge]

Why do old modules have so many traps where if you turn the key clockwise, you get a good thing, but if you turn it counter-clockwise, a scything blade trap rips off the PC's arm? Was this fun back then or did it get removed from the game because it wasn't a fun player choice?

 

[Uder]

I'm not sure if I ever noticed a lot of that specific method (although it is just another form of the ingrained "left is bad, right is good"), but in general fantasy rpgs starting with the Greyhawk supplement onwards have moved dealing with traps and exploration from role-playing methods to mechanical methods.

Neither method is inherently more fun, IMO - it's just that RPGs have become progressively more codified from day one.

 

[roguerouge]

I don't mean all traps go clockwise, but rather that they use particular effects for turning the key a particular way. I've been reading The Mud sorcerer's tomb and that's what brought it up. It mixes it up well, so much so that you can't predict which way to turn it. I'm trying to understand why a trap that you can't detect or predict worked in the past for players and DMs.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

A trap that can be detected or predicted can be defeated, either by player meta-knowledge or by the skills of the PC (my Thief would understand the inner workings of the basic needle trap!).

I think the answer, quite simply, is because it is a trap for players more than for PCs.

 

[howandwhy99]

I don't mean all traps go clockwise, but rather that they use particular effects for turning the key a particular way. I've been reading The Mud sorcerer's tomb and that's what brought it up. It mixes it up well, so much so that you can't predict which way to turn it. I'm trying to understand why a trap that you can't detect or predict worked in the past for players and DMs.

Can you give some specific examples from the scenario you're reading? Some traps (a.k.a. encounters) were just plain bad. And it was because they were unpredictable, as you say. To explore a predictable world it must be comprehensible. So traps and tricks without rules involved really makes the encounter unplayable.

 

[Uder]

I don't mean all traps go clockwise, but rather that they use particular effects for turning the key a particular way. I've been reading The Mud sorcerer's tomb and that's what brought it up. It mixes it up well, so much so that you can't predict which way to turn it. I'm trying to understand why a trap that you can't detect or predict worked in the past for players and DMs.

Ah, you made it sound like you thought all (or a lot of) old modules were that way, and not a specific Dungeon mag module inspired by Tomb of Horrors. Whole different ball of wax, there.

The idea, I think, with these sort of dungeons is either to accept that it's a deathtrap and play with several PCs/hirelings/henchmen per player, or prepare up the wazoo and try to read/pick/blow your DMs mind at every twist and turn.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Binary traps can be just as boring as those which are bypassed with a skill roll. I prefer traps that have clues elsewhere which provide information about their operation. A coin flip decision isn't very interesting.

The best traps IMHO should require both some thinking by the player along with the use of the character's abilities to overcome.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Traps like that are meant to be approached from the point of view of trying to do something the trap designer (the DM or writer) didn't expect that foils the trap.

How do you know there's a trap there? Because you're in a dungeon and expect there to be traps everywhere. There's no way in hell you're going to turn the key with your hand, and preferably you'll work out some way to either
a) progress without ever touching or even standing near the key
b) turn the key while being a long, long way away, or invulnerable or some such.

As to whether that's fun or not? Personally I'd like every trap to be detectable with relative ease, but require explicit countermeasures like that to overcome. I think the current "succeed at thievery 43 times before 3 failures" design for some things makes for the worst possible trap encounters.

 

[Bullgrit]

Why do old modules have so many traps where if you turn the key clockwise, you get a good thing, but if you turn it counter-clockwise, a scything blade trap rips off the PC's arm?

I think the current "succeed at thievery 43 times before 3 failures" design for some things makes for the worst possible trap encounters.

This is why discussions on ENWorld get so frustrating. One poster exaggerates a situation in one edition, and then another has to throw in hyperbole directed at the other edition as a counter. Truth and facts are anathema on the Internet.

Bullgrit

 

[ExploderWizard]

This is why discussions on ENWorld get so frustrating. One poster exaggerates a situation in one edition, and then another has to throw in hyperbole directed at the other edition as a counter. Truth and facts are anathema on the Internet.

Bullgrit

It need not be frustrating if one doesn't take every overblown example personally. Both claims have an element of truth to them even though it may not be the whole story. A rational discussion can begin with two ridiculous extremes and end up fairly well sorted out by the end.