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<blockquote data-quote="DMZ2112" data-source="post: 6294659" data-attributes="member: 78752">I have to be honest: despite the enjoyment I derived from creating killing floors in D&amp;D4, I don't actually agree with this viewpoint.&nbsp; Traps + minions = OSHA nightmare.&nbsp; I'm being a little flip, but I have run Keep on the Shadowfell a few times and I have never ended that first encounter in the Keep without multiple goblins and no PCs at the bottom of that pit trap.&nbsp; You station minions within earshot, sure, but the purpose of a recent trap (ancient traps are a different animal) is to impede access and inflict intruder attrition /without/ the application of humanoid resources.I didn't address the specific flavor of 13th Age in my previous post, but I am honestly surprised that the authors advise dungeon masters to avoid traps when their own concept of living dungeons seems to lend itself so perfectly to the presence of complex and dangerous devices.&nbsp; The first thing that crossed my mind upon reading about living dungeons was that it was a perfect excuse for ornate and even illogical trap design that would never work in an environment that was purpose-built for anything but killing adventurers.Having to have traps make logical sense is one of the biggest hurdles to design, I find.&nbsp; No matter how you slice it (har har), concealing spring-loaded blades inside your walls is a recipe for eventual disaster.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DMZ2112, post: 6294659, member: 78752"] I have to be honest: despite the enjoyment I derived from creating killing floors in D&D4, I don't actually agree with this viewpoint. Traps + minions = OSHA nightmare. I'm being a little flip, but I have run Keep on the Shadowfell a few times and I have never ended that first encounter in the Keep without multiple goblins and no PCs at the bottom of that pit trap. You station minions within earshot, sure, but the purpose of a recent trap (ancient traps are a different animal) is to impede access and inflict intruder attrition /without/ the application of humanoid resources. I didn't address the specific flavor of 13th Age in my previous post, but I am honestly surprised that the authors advise dungeon masters to avoid traps when their own concept of living dungeons seems to lend itself so perfectly to the presence of complex and dangerous devices. The first thing that crossed my mind upon reading about living dungeons was that it was a perfect excuse for ornate and even illogical trap design that would never work in an environment that was purpose-built for anything but killing adventurers. Having to have traps make logical sense is one of the biggest hurdles to design, I find. No matter how you slice it (har har), concealing spring-loaded blades inside your walls is a recipe for eventual disaster. [/QUOTE]

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