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<blockquote data-quote="Huntsman57" data-source="post: 6772405" data-attributes="member: 6803721"><p>What I'm saying is that we're over-rating the value of damage output alone. You're not only capable of 2-4 attacks per round (depending on haste and if you are duel wielding) by 6th level (which compared to many classes is quite respectable), but you're now no longer a damage avoider but also a damage blocker/absorber compared to a squishy ranged wizard. This helps the party quite a bit. It's not all about offense, but also the ability to spread the damage.</p><p></p><p>Hitpoints aren't buffed til 10th level of course, but unless you're getting nailed with a great wyms's breath weapon you shouldn't have to worry about failing a concentration saving throw. You'll have 2 feats by 6th level so if we stick those into CON resilient and War Caster, you're looking at a 1 in 400 chance of a fail in most cases. </p><p></p><p>I'd probably do my SS's stats with point buy, with which I should start out at 1st level with an AC of 18 while singing. We'll be able to make many hits simply miss with the Shield spell alone, driving the AC temporarily to 23. By 3rd level we'll have blur. By 5th level we get haste if we prefer to lean on the offense a bit more, and we have improved invisibility at 7th level which makes us pretty much ridiculous to hurt unless the foe has true seeing or some such, so that's probably the play once hitpoints are starting to get low and you need to start to spread the damage away from you.</p><p></p><p>Again, with all this going for the SS, he is also a full caster. Amazing. I could use 5th-8th level spells for battlefield control, or just use those spell slots to get back a not insignificant amount of hitpoints. Following that, I get the ability to add a nice damage bonus to each of my 2-4 attacks, and the piece de resistance is Foresight at 17th level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Huntsman57, post: 6772405, member: 6803721"] What I'm saying is that we're over-rating the value of damage output alone. You're not only capable of 2-4 attacks per round (depending on haste and if you are duel wielding) by 6th level (which compared to many classes is quite respectable), but you're now no longer a damage avoider but also a damage blocker/absorber compared to a squishy ranged wizard. This helps the party quite a bit. It's not all about offense, but also the ability to spread the damage. Hitpoints aren't buffed til 10th level of course, but unless you're getting nailed with a great wyms's breath weapon you shouldn't have to worry about failing a concentration saving throw. You'll have 2 feats by 6th level so if we stick those into CON resilient and War Caster, you're looking at a 1 in 400 chance of a fail in most cases. I'd probably do my SS's stats with point buy, with which I should start out at 1st level with an AC of 18 while singing. We'll be able to make many hits simply miss with the Shield spell alone, driving the AC temporarily to 23. By 3rd level we'll have blur. By 5th level we get haste if we prefer to lean on the offense a bit more, and we have improved invisibility at 7th level which makes us pretty much ridiculous to hurt unless the foe has true seeing or some such, so that's probably the play once hitpoints are starting to get low and you need to start to spread the damage away from you. Again, with all this going for the SS, he is also a full caster. Amazing. I could use 5th-8th level spells for battlefield control, or just use those spell slots to get back a not insignificant amount of hitpoints. Following that, I get the ability to add a nice damage bonus to each of my 2-4 attacks, and the piece de resistance is Foresight at 17th level. [/QUOTE]
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