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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 6809029" data-attributes="member: 55582">I don't have a hang-up on the Bladesinger, I think it's pretty good.  I'm playing one in a campaign right now and am pretty happy with it.  I say that I think the Bladesinger is "pretty good" in the document, and rate it's abilities highly.I'm assuming you are specifically referring to my point that a straight-classed bladesinger isn't going to be a particularly good melee combatant, and from a thematic standpoint, if I play a bladesinger, I want to fight in melee, but if that is the case, you will note that the document makes several suggestions regarding how you can use multiclass to make it work.  My bladesinger is going to multiclass 2 levels of pally, that should work nicely. Is this sentence deliberately ironic <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" />Honestly, I don't consider criticism and whining to be synonymous.   I don't remember making "a stance" on the SCAG additions.  Generally I thought they were the best part of the book.  The setting information was way too short and largely redundant with more detailed FR publications I already possessed from previous editions.I like the Bladesinger too, but I have criticisms as well.  Extra attack at level 6 seems like a cut-and-paste from the Valor Bard rather than an ability that adds flavor and uniqueness to this option, it also conflicts with the cantrips created for the class as they can't be used together.  The abilities focus overly on the defensive, which can be a problem if you intend to use a weapon rather than spells in combat.None of these things are deal-breakers, any more than "Durable summons" is a deal-breaker for conjurer's or "Minor Alchemy" is a deal-breaker for Transmuters.It's not really of any value to say, "Everything is wonderful!  There's no weaknesses you need to work-around!  You're doing less than 1/2 the damage of the fighter?  At least you look great doing it!"I do, that's why there's a list of options to make the concept work well at the end.  It requires some multiclassing.I think Bladesingers make very effective God Wizards, I also think it's thematically weird to have a bladesinger not use a weapon.  I bring up both these points in the doc.What lost cause?  I want my Bladesinger to be as effective with a weapon as he is with spells.  This is perfectly achievable with some thoughtful multiclass options.  This is what I'm doing with my current Bladesinger character.  I do expect some players are going to think that selecting the Bladesinger school and grabbing a weapon is going to make them effective in melee, and they will be disappointed.  My assessment attempts to provide advice to make the tradition fit the concept.  This requires some multiclassing.My wishes for a Bladesinger are that instead of being a full-caster, it was a wizard/warrior hybrid that is an effective melee combatant with some neat magical tricks.  Honestly, a Wizard/Fighter mutliclass already achieves that, so I would expect a Bladesinger to be similar in power to that combination but be unique enough to warrant it's existence.In this regard, I think the balance of the Bladesinger is off.  I think it is overly weighted towards spellcasting/defense and not weighted enough on offense.  Furthermore, I think the Bladesong ability (defense) is unique and interesting, while I think extra attack and adding Int to damage (offense) is bland and just copied from other abilities that already exist to other classes in the game. I'm about to read something really, really, really dead wrong now aren't I?Yep.  If I expected full casting, why did I make all the multiclass suggestions?  There is negative baggage, I'm acknowledging it.Let me try an analogy.  I'm going to deliberately exaggerate to make the point.Let's say the designers released a "Ninja" class.  You like ninjas, so are excited to see how your new ninja is going to work.  Reading the class, you see it gets:- Adds wisdom damage to heavy weapon attacks- Can wear plate mail- Gains full casting of necromancy spells- Gets lay on hands- Has the "Rage" ability- Can fly at willYou would probably recognize that this as a very powerful class, but it's not how you envisioned a ninja.  My issue with the Bladesinger, is that without multiclassing, it's not how I envision a Bladesinger.  Not that I don't recognize the abilities are good, or that I think it should retain 9th level casting if given more martial ability. I also clarify what I mean by "traditional bladesinger".  9th level spells don't mean much when you are swinging a longsword.  The ability is there, but if you are using a weapon instead, you aren't accessing that ability.  I give a green rating to a straight bladesinger that casts spells instead of using a weapon (God Wizard)  I give a blue rating to a bladesinger that multiclasses with paladin. (providing the required shift in weight to offense).  The latter is the Bladesinger character I've chosen to play.  Smite + Wizard casting progression + Bladesong + Weapon style?  Yes please.</blockquote>

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