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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7091429" data-attributes="member: 12731">In my opinion, evaluating save or suck spells should routinely be made at mid- to high level.At low level, your save DC isn't anything special. It is still close to the baseline. Evaluating any save-spell at low level ignores how your DC will steadily rise, while 5e monsters saves will not.A spell like Hold Person (not gonna touch the Hypnotic Pattern discussion with a ten-feet pole) is borderline useless when you first get it at 3rd level. It is hugely expensive, as you have very few 2nd level slots. And the probability that the spell will stick simply isn't great.Compare to a level 13 or 19 caster. You have plenty of low-level slots. Even if you upcast it, it will still be much cheaper than for the lvl 3 caster. But more importantly, your DC which will be 17 or 19 or something will now be absolutely frightening. In 5e, monsters generally doesn't become better at making saves. Obvious exceptions excepted: targeting big brutes with Con saves; legendary creatures with legendary saves etc.Just wanting to say that the fact you found the spell wanting is a tad misleading. EVERY save spell is a tad wanting at low level.Sent from my C6603 using <a href="http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=93205" target="_blank">EN World mobile app</a></blockquote>